Update to 'Critique of work in progress'

jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

You're not another 'grafick dee-zy-ner' are you?

Your work speaks for you, jake ... as does the attitude.

Someday you might have to work with a graphic designer. It will be hard
for you to choke down, particularly if their coding skills are better
than yours.

I understand, though.

Yes. You are ...... aren't you ...... a genuine 'grafick dee-zy-ner'.

Jake, it's all about you and your sad little web page.

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

The Doormouse wrote:

Edwin van der Vaart <picayunish2000 (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote:


Wow, Google does work :-D


Google, what's that?

This mine library :-P
--
Edwin van der Vaart
http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction

In message <Xns94FC6F3D71F36doormouseattnet (AT) 68 (DOT) 12.19.6>, The Doormouse
<doormouse (AT) att (DOT) net> writes

jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

You're not another 'grafick dee-zy-ner' are you?

Your work speaks for you, jake ... as does the attitude.


Someday you might have to work with a graphic designer. It will be hard
for you to choke down, particularly if their coding skills are better
than yours.

I understand, though.


Yes. You are ...... aren't you ...... a genuine 'grafick dee-zy-ner'.

Jake, it's all about you and your sad little web page.


The Doormouse

Oooops .... the sound of a raw nerve being touched.

--
Jake

Uh oh - yours went down?
Nope. Just used for another task.

Thanks for asking, though!

--
Pepe
Milano, Italy

I guess that, in time, you will come to realise that designing a Web
site involves a lot more than just producing a page with a few pretty
pictures ;-)
What do you mean by that, Jake? What has time made you to realise about

"DESIGNING" a website?

I think I got it now... you've got your definitions wrong! You can't make
the difference between "designing", "realizing" and "building" a web site!

As long as the site's mark-up validates, it's a winner, uh, Jake? I guess
that the word "content" doesn't ring a bell either... as long as you can put
the W3C, HTML and CSS validation badges on the site, all should be well,
isn't it?

If you wanna talk about a subject, at least you should inform yourself at
least about the very basics... looks like you can't be bothered with such a
mundane nuisance... looks like you're having a hard time grasping the
concept of "intellectual property", which is incidentally what designers
produce. It's not the website itself; it's the effect that produces in the
people that come to visit it. Alien concept, Jake? X-files material for you
to grasp?

I won't argue with you about HTML, CSS, Javascript, SSI... that's not my
area of expertise. But as long as you think as you can get away talking
about something you don't know, and pretending that the counterpart is as
ignorant about the subject as you self are, you'll have to think again,
Jake.

(One of the most useful options that the browser designers ever put into
their product was 'turn off graphic images'.)
More ignorance shown... you don't seem to get tired, don't you? Do you think

that pretty graphics is all what a good commercial site has to offer? Do you
think that if you turn'em off a real Designer would be cut off? Wrong again!

Most of the time, what makes or breaks a successful site is the layout and
copy... ever heard of a "Copywriter", Jake? Never wondered why a good one of
those gets paid three times what any kind of designer gets and are forever
in demand?

Of course there are many variables in certain business, but... did you even
imagined that a well-designed proposal is what it actually closes the deals?
A multi-billion business deal gets made in a $ 0,05 piece of paper?

Many successful businesses don't even have a Yellow Pages ad, let alone a
website... but all of them have good stationery... and maybe a business
card; many don't need anything else to do business... for BILLIONS at the
time... then you talk about "turning pictures off". Gimme a break!

If you're proud of showing your lack of knowledge about the whole commercial
design business, be my guest.

Just don't get upset if this time someone made it public.

Yours truly,

--
Pepe
Milano, Italy

This I disagree with. While I don't speak the language of design, it is
not a subject I'm disinclined to discuss.
Fair enough. However, the fact that you don't speak the language of design,

prevents you for to be able to comprehend the discussion on the topic. It's
like playing chess. You can't appreciate an aperture or the developement of
a whole game if you don't know the rules. Is this example clear?

Perhaps you can recommend some resources you have found valuable in your
formative time?
I've started with photography when I was forteen years old. So, I'm inclined

to recommend that you start by learning the rules of composition, the
concept and use of positive and negative space, and color theory. That will
get you ocuppied for a while, I can tell you!

Then, learn Typography and Layout. That pretty much covers the necessary
theorical background. Then get your hands dirty and learn about the
professional press process; that's the most valuable time you can spend on,
as you can get a pretty good idea of how will the work actually look like on
print.

To learn all of this, you don't actually need a computer. People for several
hundred years were producing pieces of art, books and other printed media
without a computer... so you shouldn't need one to design...

If you like the new media, so it's a whole lot to learn about markup, and
programming... learn all you want, be my guest! That's definitely not my
area of expertise.

While I'm not necessarily a graphic designer, I am an artist, and am
concerned with the appearance of my work.
Commercial Design and Art are two different things altogether; both respond

to whole different markets with completely different set of rules. Never mix
up the two.

Apologies that my last reply was a bit more cutting than warranted.
No need to apologise. I wasn't really talking like Mahatma Gandhi or Mother

Teresa either...

:-)

--
Pepe
Milano, Italy

I admit this wasn't where I expected this thread to go. It proves that
you should always spend some time in a newsgroup before you (cross)post to
it.

Thanks for all the replies (even Pepe). I promise not to post to
alt.design.graphics (after this post) until I have read as many design
books as I have code-based books and learnt something beyond the basic
sandwich (read Doormouse replies for understanding).

For Pepe: apologies if I caused anguish; no insult to your profession
intended.

For Doormouse: you will be pleased to know I am reading 'Using Design
Basics To Get Creative Results'. It makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I'd be
interested to see some of your work, mail me if you can make the time.

All in alt.html.critique: I'll take note of all suggestions /
amendments. Wish you long life and short downloads.

At least Lynx loves me ;-)
TNT

John Small
Throw the lucky seven's to reply by mail.

The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

Can I have the link to your own site, Doormouse?

I've seen the bswanky site and I find it adorable. I'd like to see you
online portfolio, if you've got one, of course!

--
Pepe
Milano, Italy

jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

Oooops .... the sound of a raw nerve being touched.

It's still all about you.

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

"Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio" <gcdbTOGLIMI (AT) email (DOT) it> wrote:

The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

Can I have the link to your own site, Doormouse?

I've seen the bswanky site and I find it adorable. I'd like to see you
online portfolio, if you've got one, of course!

Thank you for asking!

Right now I have no site of my own, just pages that I am doing for other
people ...

I will send you a link or two in e-mail and add you to my email safelist -
you will have permission to send me e-mail under your current handle and e-
mail ID.

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.