Re: review request for site with nested tables

In message <Xns9504D3E9221F4asdlfjk (AT) 24 (DOT) 168.128.78>, Tom
<paecraec64 (AT) jetable (DOT) org> writes

I'm in the process of building a page of links to Open Access journals and
databases. I'd appreciate feedback on the appearance of the site,
particularly any specific suggestions on improving the table structure.
When I view the page from home (where I'm working on it from), the right
margin looks fine. However, when I veiw the page from my office, using the
same type browser, OS, and monitor resolution, the alignment of the right
margin is off.

Any constructive suggestions on how to improve the structure of this page
would be appreciated.

The page in question is at http://tomrue.hopto.org/links/db.htm

Thanks!

Tom




P.S. If anyone can improve on the Latin translation in the heading, that
would also be appreciated. From the English "Information was meant to be
free," I'm not sure that the machine-translated "Notitia eram vilis ut
exsisto solvo" carries the same meaning. Anyone?

Thanks again.

Presumably the page doesn't have to be workable for people using other

than a graphics browser?

e.g. No screen-reader users, no talking browser users, etc.

regards
--
Jake

"Tom" <paecraec64 (AT) jetable (DOT) org> wrote

Jake,

Good question. I do not have a screen-reader

One does not see a screen reader, one listens to it :-)

Cheers
Richard.

"Tom" <paecraec64 (AT) jetable (DOT) org> wrote

"rf" <rf (AT) example (DOT) com> wrote in news:Qhgyc.3913$sj4.1821@news-
server.bigpond.net.au:

One does not see a screen reader, one listens to it :-)




I see what you mean. Bud one tends not to see what what doesn't have.

Download lynx. It's a free text only browser. It shows you a reasonable
approximation of what an aural browser will speak.

Better yet, just download an aural browser.

Cheers
Richard.

In message <Xns95053D679A308asdlfjk (AT) 24 (DOT) 168.128.86>, Tom
<paecraec64 (AT) jetable (DOT) org> writes

Jake,

Good question. I do not have a screen-reader so I am not sure how this page
comes across in one. The page that I pointed to consists largely of links
and almost entirely of text, with only a few small graphics, though I
suppose the tables themselves might create a lot of noise in a reader. How
does a text-reader do with this page? Perhaps you can recommend or point me
to a text-reader that I might use for testing purposes?

Thanks.

Tom

[snip]

Let me get back to you tomorrow on this one.

In the meanwhile, try the 30-day free trial of:
http://www-3.ibm.com/able/solution_offerings/hpr.html

regards.

jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:$NJpP4CBqXyAFwd7 (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk:
Presumably the page doesn't have to be workable for people using other
than a graphics browser?

e.g. No screen-reader users, no talking browser users, etc.

regards

--
Jake

In message <Xns95053D679A308asdlfjk (AT) 24 (DOT) 168.128.86>, Tom
<paecraec64 (AT) jetable (DOT) org> writes

Jake,

Good question. I do not have a screen-reader so I am not sure how this page
comes across in one. The page that I pointed to consists largely of links
and almost entirely of text, with only a few small graphics, though I
suppose the tables themselves might create a lot of noise in a reader. How
does a text-reader do with this page? Perhaps you can recommend or point me
to a text-reader that I might use for testing purposes?

Thanks.

Tom



In message <Xns9504D3E9221F4asdlfjk (AT) 24 (DOT) 168.128.78>, Tom
paecraec64 (AT) jetable (DOT) org> writes
[snip]

The page in question is at http://tomrue.hopto.org/links/db.htm
[snip]



jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in

would encounter with the site.

If you're not using an AT User Agent (e.g. Screen Reader), then there
are a number of quite good substitutes for testing:

(a) http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html provides an on-line Lynx
browser. Just enter the url of your page and you will see what a
text-only browser will see (and, therefore, what AT user will hear).

(b) You can download a free copy of the Opera browser:
http://www.opera.com/
One of the options in the browser is to disable 'Tables' -- so you get
to see your page linearized; another option is to disable image download
so that you get to see if there's any missing alternative text.

(c) Use the WAVE accessibility tool:
http://wave.webaim.org/index.jsp

One of the problems that your site has at the moment is missing
'alternative text' on many of your images. Unless you have alternative
text, then the 'content' of the images is invisible to an AT user.

Let's take an example:
You have a couple of forms for accessing the Meriam-Webster online
Dictionary and Thesaurus.

An At user will never be able to use them.

What will an AT UA 'see'?

Using the Delorie on-line Lynx browser it will see:
http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/TOM3X.JPG (44k)

Using Opera it will see:
http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/TOM2X.JPG (46k)

In both cases, you can clearly see that the missing alternative text
means that the user has no idea what these search forms are for.

Transcript of the spoken output from a real UA confirms this:
http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/TOM4X.JPG (57k)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Anther problem that your page has is that one of the main methods for
navigating a long/complex page for an AT user is by 'headings'. By
putting the UA into 'headings mode' the user can skip from one header to
the next until they have located the section that they're interested in.

On your page, you have styled many 'headings' -- but none of them appear
in the HTML e.g. no <h1> <h2> <h3>, etc.

Example:
http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/TOM1X.JPG

Without full mark-up, it is going to be very difficult/time-consuming
for the user to locate the information they are after.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Other thoughts:

Consider whether some of the content might be better marked-up as
'lists' rather than as 'tables'.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------

Can I suggest that your site has an Accessibility Page. You can put in a
link to this page at the start of your main page. If you use a 1-pixel
..gif with suitable alternative text as the link, you can make it
invisible to graphical browsers.

On this Accessibility Page you can describe how the main page is laid
out and any other information that will aid the AT user -- along with a
suitable selection of 'short-cut' links.

I am sure that other people will have further comments to make about the
HTML ;-)

regards.


--
Jake