Critique of template please

"Paul Burke" <webmaster (AT) firstpeople (DOT) us> wrote

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:21:29 -0000, "T.J." <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid> wrote:


"Virginia" <missjoker97 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:QceLd.222639$8l.100212 (AT) pd7tw1no (DOT) ..

<snipped>

You can go to http://netmechanic.com/GIFBot/optimize-graphic.htm and
submit
your image and it will show you different percentages of reduction of
your
image to save download time and then you can right click and save
whichever
image they have optimized for you that still looks good enough to put
on
your site.
It's simple and free!!


Wow,
That's amazing, thanks for the link.


Hi T.J.

You may want to use SLR - Space and Line Remover from
http://www.bewebmaster.com/tools/

Handy little prog which will decrease your html
HTH
plh
Paul

Thanks, I will go and have a look.
I've learnt more here in the past couple of days
than I have for a long time.
Cheers all.

"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote

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"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote in message
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"T.J." <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid> wrote in message
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"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote in message
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In article <ctj9hh$rvj$1 (AT) news6 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
says...
Hi all,

I'm pretty new to building pages and have just switched
across from using tables to using Divs. and .CSS
A quick critique of
http://www.sim64.co.uk/fps.html
would be appreciated.
Not all the links are set up yet, and please judge the overall
layout rather than the content.
My main priority is to create a standardised very basic and
simple template which I can use for other pages.
TIA.



Not bad. Easy to navigate.

One suggestion, reduce the size of the images on the page. 59kb
of
images on top, along with the rest of the images on the page
gives
you
a
total of 153 kb. That will make for a very slow download on a
dial-up
connection.

By optimizing each image, you could easily cut this by 1/3 or
more.

Thanks for looking,
What is actually meant by optimizing an image?
Does it just mean lowering the quality?
I don't have any photo editing software, but just make do
with paint and IrfanView.
Is it just a case of saving the image in a lower quality?
I saved the top image at about 50% quality which reduced it from
35kb to 26kb but it is slightly blurry.
is it just a case of setting it to the lowest quality I am happy
with.
Apologies for my newbie question, but imaging is something
I have never worked with before, any advice on where to learn
more would be appreciated.
Sorry to follow on from my own post, but I have now reduced the
quality of all the images to 70% of their original using IrfanView,
is this what is meant by optimizing a picture, and should I reduce
the quality of the smaller images more?



Irfanview is a good editor. For what you are doing, it has
everything
you need. I would also recommend xnview - I use both, along with
Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, depending on what I'm trying to
achieve.

That is exactly what I mean by optimizing - lower the quality to the
point right before it gets blurry. 80 - 90% is typically the proper
setting for web viewing. I always start at 85%, that seems to work
best
for my eyes. Cropping the image, even just a little can save
another
10% in file size. It may not seem like much, but if you cut 5
kb/image
with 8 images, you saved 40kb, or 8 seconds in load time on a
dial-up.

Thanks again,
I've had a play around.
Because the top image was made up from 2 or 3 others
I reduced the quality of it to 20% of the original and then
pasted a higher quality logo on the left hand side of it.
the fact that the rest of it is slightly blurry adds to the effect
(that's my story anyway ;o) )
All the other images I reduced by 50%.
When you say cut, do you actually mean trim the edges of the
images, or reduce the size slightly.
Do you think I have reduced the quality too much, or are they
about right?



I think you may have gone a little too far. They all look blurry now.

You can crop the edges of the image - cutting it out.

I've left the quality of the images as they are at the moment and
removed 4 unnecessary ones, but it's still a bit slow.
Is there a way to force the top image (background) to load first?
(I will ask in alt.html as well)



There is no way to set which image loads first.

You did a great job. This should fully load in under 15 seconds on a
dial-up. I still think you went too far with the images - they are
blurry to me. Try them again at 80 or 85%. It shouldn't add more than
a second or two to the download.

And I may have said this before - nice site.

Thanks,
You may have guessed from the over use of some phrases that
I am one of those despised creatures, an SEO.
I thought it was about time I learnt how to build nice, user friendly
sites, and have spent the last week or so concentrating more
on the look and usability of my pages.
One thing that is baffling me though is;
What is controlling the size of the main body text?
If I specify a font size in my .mainbody div it adjusts fine, but if I
don't, it displays as it is at the moment, which isn't the same as the
general font size.
Any idea what is controlling the size of this text, is it the default text
size of my browser?

In message <ctj9hh$rvj$1 (AT) news6 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid>
writes

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to building pages and have just switched
across from using tables to using Divs. and .CSS
A quick critique of
http://www.sim64.co.uk/fps.html
would be appreciated.
Not all the links are set up yet, and please judge the overall
layout rather than the content.
My main priority is to create a standardised very basic and
simple template which I can use for other pages.
TIA.


IE 6 -- 1024x768

==============

Looks OK. Easy to read.

One or two thoughts:

(a) You have some headings that are styled as such -- but are not
marked-up in the HTML.

e.g. 'Legal Help' 'Tax Advise' (Advice?) etc.

(b) What would you expect a visitor who was using a text-to-speech
program to hear first? If it's the "French Property Sales./South of
France Property Specialist./Welcome to French Property Sales." part of
the page then you will need to provide a 'skip to main content' link as
the first entry on the page.

(The text is rendered in the order that it is read in the HTML -- so you
get the LHS read first.)

regards.

--
Jake

"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote

In article <ctlgkc$6at$1 (AT) newsg3 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid says...

"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c67f7c54bc7cec39896f9 (AT) news (DOT) comcast.giganews.com...
In article <ctl1k7$8bh$1 (AT) news7 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid says...

snip



There is no way to set which image loads first.

You did a great job. This should fully load in under 15 seconds on a
dial-up. I still think you went too far with the images - they are
blurry to me. Try them again at 80 or 85%. It shouldn't add more than
a second or two to the download.

And I may have said this before - nice site.

Thanks,
You may have guessed from the over use of some phrases that
I am one of those despised creatures, an SEO.
I thought it was about time I learnt how to build nice, user friendly
sites, and have spent the last week or so concentrating more
on the look and usability of my pages.
One thing that is baffling me though is;
What is controlling the size of the main body text?
If I specify a font size in my .mainbody div it adjusts fine, but if I
don't, it displays as it is at the moment, which isn't the same as the
general font size.
Any idea what is controlling the size of this text, is it the default
text
size of my browser?



That is correct, unless you specify a font size, it will use the
default.

I was assuming that, but on my screen the main body text (which
hasn't got a size specified) appears smaller than text which
is specified at 100%.
From this, can I assume my browser default settings are less than
100% and is this adjustable?
Sorry about this thread going OT.

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote

In message <ctj9hh$rvj$1 (AT) news6 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
writes
Hi all,

I'm pretty new to building pages and have just switched
across from using tables to using Divs. and .CSS
A quick critique of
http://www.sim64.co.uk/fps.html
would be appreciated.
Not all the links are set up yet, and please judge the overall
layout rather than the content.
My main priority is to create a standardised very basic and
simple template which I can use for other pages.
TIA.


IE 6 -- 1024x768
==============

Looks OK. Easy to read.

One or two thoughts:

(a) You have some headings that are styled as such -- but are not
marked-up in the HTML.

e.g. 'Legal Help' 'Tax Advise' (Advice?) etc.

(b) What would you expect a visitor who was using a text-to-speech program
to hear first? If it's the "French Property Sales./South of France
Property Specialist./Welcome to French Property Sales." part of the page
then you will need to provide a 'skip to main content' link as the first
entry on the page.

(The text is rendered in the order that it is read in the HTML -- so you
get the LHS read first.)

regards.

--
Jake

Thanks,
I don't really understand what you mean, but I have now made the very first
link on the page a link to the main body.
Is this what you mean?
Regarding the headers,
As they are less important than the main headers they can only be <h3>
but if I made them like this it would mess up the order of my headers
i.e.. they would go <h3>, <h1>, <h2>
I didn't think this was allowed?
By having the first link to the main body does this overcome the problem?
(thanks for picking up the spelling, probably lots more ( not my strong
point)

"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote

In article <ctlu5j$98m$1 (AT) newsg2 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid says...

"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c6828db3bbd338f9896fa (AT) news (DOT) comcast.giganews.com...
In article <ctlgkc$6at$1 (AT) newsg3 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
says...

"saz" <saz1958 (AT) nospammersexcite (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c67f7c54bc7cec39896f9 (AT) news (DOT) comcast.giganews.com...
In article <ctl1k7$8bh$1 (AT) news7 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
says...

snip



There is no way to set which image loads first.

You did a great job. This should fully load in under 15 seconds on
a
dial-up. I still think you went too far with the images - they are
blurry to me. Try them again at 80 or 85%. It shouldn't add more
than
a second or two to the download.

And I may have said this before - nice site.

Thanks,
You may have guessed from the over use of some phrases that
I am one of those despised creatures, an SEO.
I thought it was about time I learnt how to build nice, user friendly
sites, and have spent the last week or so concentrating more
on the look and usability of my pages.
One thing that is baffling me though is;
What is controlling the size of the main body text?
If I specify a font size in my .mainbody div it adjusts fine, but if I
don't, it displays as it is at the moment, which isn't the same as the
general font size.
Any idea what is controlling the size of this text, is it the default
text
size of my browser?



That is correct, unless you specify a font size, it will use the
default.

I was assuming that, but on my screen the main body text (which
hasn't got a size specified) appears smaller than text which
is specified at 100%.
From this, can I assume my browser default settings are less than
100% and is this adjustable?
Sorry about this thread going OT.



Without going into this too deeply, every browser and every machine has
it's own default "interpretation". They will be similar from machine to
machine, but never exactly the same. So yes, it is the way your machine
is set, and yes it is adjustable.

Most of your website viewers do not know how to change these settings,
so design with "normal" or default settings in mind.

I assume the best way to do this is ensure every div has a font
size specified, or use the font size % which is closest to the default
setting?
i.e. rather than set the general font at 100% set it at about 90 or 95%?

T.J. wrote:

I assume the best way to do this is ensure every div has a font
size specified, or use the font size % which is closest to the
default setting?

No, don't do that. The C of CSS is .. Cascading.

If you set the body { font-size: 100%; } practically everything else
will inherit from it. There are a couple of browsers that may require
an additional little tweak. I have some td { font-size: 100%; } for
I think IE.

You do not want to start putting font classes all throughout your code.

i.e. rather than set the general font at 100% set it at about 90 or
95%?

Unless you pick some really large font (like Verdana <spit>), you
should use 100%. If I don't have Verdana, I'll get - in your case -
90% of maybe Arial, which is too small.

Use 100%, then set your own browser to what you like, and I'll do the
same with mine.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

In message <ctm0ef$b7h$1 (AT) newsg2 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid>
writes

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:w0wmvbBOtn$BFwSg (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk...
In message <ctj9hh$rvj$1 (AT) news6 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
writes
Hi all,

I'm pretty new to building pages and have just switched
across from using tables to using Divs. and .CSS
A quick critique of
http://www.sim64.co.uk/fps.html
would be appreciated.
Not all the links are set up yet, and please judge the overall
layout rather than the content.
My main priority is to create a standardised very basic and
simple template which I can use for other pages.
TIA.


IE 6 -- 1024x768
==============

Looks OK. Easy to read.

One or two thoughts:

(a) You have some headings that are styled as such -- but are not
marked-up in the HTML.

e.g. 'Legal Help' 'Tax Advise' (Advice?) etc.

(b) What would you expect a visitor who was using a text-to-speech program
to hear first? If it's the "French Property Sales./South of France
Property Specialist./Welcome to French Property Sales." part of the page
then you will need to provide a 'skip to main content' link as the first
entry on the page.

(The text is rendered in the order that it is read in the HTML -- so you
get the LHS read first.)

regards.

--
Jake


Thanks,
I don't really understand what you mean, but I have now made the very first
link on the page a link to the main body.
Is this what you mean?

Yes, that's fine -- although you need to make it clear that it is a
link to the main content, as it's not obvious as it stands. You can
always make it 'invisible' if it interferes with your design ;-)

Regarding the headers,
As they are less important than the main headers they can only be <h3
but if I made them like this it would mess up the order of my headers
i.e.. they would go <h3>, <h1>, <h2
I didn't think this was allowed?

For the page to be correct, headers need to be marked up as headers.

Ideally, you could code the HTML in the sequence you want it to be read
in, and then use CSS to position it on the page accordingly.

As it stands, I'd suggest marking up 'Buying Property in France' as an
<H2> and the others -- 'Mortgages', 'Legal Help', etc. as <H3>

One use that people using speech output programs have for headings is
navigation -- they can go into 'headings reading mode' and can skip from
heading to heading; other readers can provide the user with a 'list of
headings' to skip to.

By having the first link to the main body does this overcome the problem?

Logically, if they skip to the main contents, they're going to access
the headings as <H1> <H2> ...... and then <H2> <H3> <H3> etc.

(thanks for picking up the spelling, probably lots more ( not my strong
point)


regards.

--
Jake

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote

In message <ctm0ef$b7h$1 (AT) newsg2 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
writes

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:w0wmvbBOtn$BFwSg (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk...
In message <ctj9hh$rvj$1 (AT) news6 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
writes
Hi all,

I'm pretty new to building pages and have just switched
across from using tables to using Divs. and .CSS
A quick critique of
http://www.sim64.co.uk/fps.html
would be appreciated.
Not all the links are set up yet, and please judge the overall
layout rather than the content.
My main priority is to create a standardised very basic and
simple template which I can use for other pages.
TIA.


IE 6 -- 1024x768
==============

Looks OK. Easy to read.

One or two thoughts:

(a) You have some headings that are styled as such -- but are not
marked-up in the HTML.

e.g. 'Legal Help' 'Tax Advise' (Advice?) etc.

(b) What would you expect a visitor who was using a text-to-speech
program
to hear first? If it's the "French Property Sales./South of France
Property Specialist./Welcome to French Property Sales." part of the page
then you will need to provide a 'skip to main content' link as the first
entry on the page.

(The text is rendered in the order that it is read in the HTML -- so you
get the LHS read first.)

regards.

--
Jake


Thanks,
I don't really understand what you mean, but I have now made the very
first
link on the page a link to the main body.
Is this what you mean?

Yes, that's fine -- although you need to make it clear that it is a link
to the main content, as it's not obvious as it stands. You can always make
it 'invisible' if it interferes with your design ;-)

Regarding the headers,
As they are less important than the main headers they can only be <h3
but if I made them like this it would mess up the order of my headers
i.e.. they would go <h3>, <h1>, <h2
I didn't think this was allowed?

For the page to be correct, headers need to be marked up as headers.

Ideally, you could code the HTML in the sequence you want it to be read
in, and then use CSS to position it on the page accordingly.

As it stands, I'd suggest marking up 'Buying Property in France' as an
H2> and the others -- 'Mortgages', 'Legal Help', etc. as <H3

One use that people using speech output programs have for headings is
navigation -- they can go into 'headings reading mode' and can skip from
heading to heading; other readers can provide the user with a 'list of
headings' to skip to.

By having the first link to the main body does this overcome the problem?

Logically, if they skip to the main contents, they're going to access the
headings as <H1> <H2> ...... and then <H2> <H3> <H3> etc.

(thanks for picking up the spelling, probably lots more ( not my strong
point)


regards.
--
Jake

Thanks,
I did as you suggested and Bobby didn't pick up on
the headers being out of sequence, I think it usually does?
Looks like having the link to the main body did overcome
the problem.
Out of interest, do you use a screen reader or speech
output program?
If not, do you know of anywhere where I can test how my page
would appear using such devices?

In message <ctoh3j$qc0$1 (AT) news8 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid>
writes

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3XIXnxJtg2$BFwhp (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk...
In message <ctm0ef$b7h$1 (AT) newsg2 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
writes

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:w0wmvbBOtn$BFwSg (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk...
In message <ctj9hh$rvj$1 (AT) news6 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, T.J. <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid
writes
Hi all,

I'm pretty new to building pages and have just switched
across from using tables to using Divs. and .CSS
A quick critique of
http://www.sim64.co.uk/fps.html
would be appreciated.
Not all the links are set up yet, and please judge the overall
layout rather than the content.
My main priority is to create a standardised very basic and
simple template which I can use for other pages.
TIA.


IE 6 -- 1024x768
==============

Looks OK. Easy to read.

One or two thoughts:

(a) You have some headings that are styled as such -- but are not
marked-up in the HTML.

e.g. 'Legal Help' 'Tax Advise' (Advice?) etc.

(b) What would you expect a visitor who was using a text-to-speech
program
to hear first? If it's the "French Property Sales./South of France
Property Specialist./Welcome to French Property Sales." part of the page
then you will need to provide a 'skip to main content' link as the first
entry on the page.

(The text is rendered in the order that it is read in the HTML -- so you
get the LHS read first.)

regards.

--
Jake


Thanks,
I don't really understand what you mean, but I have now made the very
first
link on the page a link to the main body.
Is this what you mean?

Yes, that's fine -- although you need to make it clear that it is a link
to the main content, as it's not obvious as it stands. You can always make
it 'invisible' if it interferes with your design ;-)

Regarding the headers,
As they are less important than the main headers they can only be <h3
but if I made them like this it would mess up the order of my headers
i.e.. they would go <h3>, <h1>, <h2
I didn't think this was allowed?

For the page to be correct, headers need to be marked up as headers.

Ideally, you could code the HTML in the sequence you want it to be read
in, and then use CSS to position it on the page accordingly.

As it stands, I'd suggest marking up 'Buying Property in France' as an
H2> and the others -- 'Mortgages', 'Legal Help', etc. as <H3

One use that people using speech output programs have for headings is
navigation -- they can go into 'headings reading mode' and can skip from
heading to heading; other readers can provide the user with a 'list of
headings' to skip to.

By having the first link to the main body does this overcome the problem?

Logically, if they skip to the main contents, they're going to access the
headings as <H1> <H2> ...... and then <H2> <H3> <H3> etc.

(thanks for picking up the spelling, probably lots more ( not my strong
point)


regards.
--
Jake


Thanks,
I did as you suggested and Bobby didn't pick up on
the headers being out of sequence, I think it usually does?

I doubt it ;-)

Looks like having the link to the main body did overcome
the problem.

Not really a problem.

Out of interest, do you use a screen reader or speech
output program?

'Talking Browser' ..... IBM's HPR

If not, do you know of anywhere where I can test how my page
would appear using such devices?

30-day free trial download (Version 3.021):

http://www-3.ibm.com/able/solution_o...hprtrial3.html


regards.
--
Jake