Critique of first web site please

Jim Moe wrote:

Adam B wrote:


4. Calendar: It would look cleaner to use a table to list the events
instead of a <ul> and a slew of &nbsp;'s.

I will try this. It may take me a while. I have not looked into the
use of tables very much yet. Yes, the spaces are quite annoying. I
think HTML should have a space(#) function to insert a series of
nonbreaking spaces instead of requiring strings of &nbsp;.

The data you are presenting is tabular. So a table is an appropriate
element to use.

A list seemed to do the job, and it was a simple method that
I knew how to implement. I looked at many calendar layouts
that presented data in a format similar to a wall calendar
and initially hoped to do this, but I was dismayed by what
looked to me to be a complex process. Many of them used
scripts of one sort or another, which I have no clue how to
use yet. I also do not know if the server will support them.
I almost gave up before I realized that I could just use a
list to present the data. A table sounds like a good idea if
it will make the formatting easier. Learning how to use
tables will be my first task after this semester ends (I am
taking online classes after work and it is just about final
exam time).

[...] She likes animated gifs and flashy stuff. As you can see from
the layout I came up with, my tastes run in other directions. I was
also aiming for simplicity, visual consistency and accessibility.

Content is the most important part of the site, or should be. Anything
that draws the eye away from that is to be avoided. Most people find
flashy blinky stuff annoying and distracting. Very few find it
appealing, especially after the first 5 seconds.

I find it very annoying. Our Cubmaster seems to like it, but
I think she will defer to me on this issue.

Blinky the Shark wrote:

kchayka wrote:


Adam B wrote:


Disco Octopus wrote:


Once your done with the final version of your site, I am not sure if
you still want to keep the w3 link validation stuff for html/css.


These are mainly there for ease of checking as pages are updated.


FYI, you don't need a link in the page body to initiate validation for
that page. Get the Web Developer extension for Firefox/mozilla. It has
tools to validate any page, among other extremely useful development
aids. I believe Opera 7+ has inbuilt validation, too.


It's a heckuvan extension. I love it.

Yeppers re Opera. MainMmenu|W3-dev". Lots of stuff in there.

I had no idea that Opera had this built in. I will have to
take a look at it. It sounds like a handy feature.

URL:http://webdeveloper.mozdev.org/

On 29 Apr 2005 17:54:02 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

kchayka wrote:

Adam B wrote:

Disco Octopus wrote:

Once your done with the final version of your site, I am not sure if
you still want to keep the w3 link validation stuff for html/css.

These are mainly there for ease of checking as pages are updated.

FYI, you don't need a link in the page body to initiate validation for
that page. Get the Web Developer extension for Firefox/mozilla. It has
tools to validate any page, among other extremely useful development
aids. I believe Opera 7+ has inbuilt validation, too.

It's a heckuvan extension. I love it.

Yeppers re Opera. MainMmenu|W3-dev". Lots of stuff in there.

Excuse me if this is a dupe, I don't see my first posted about 2 hours ago.

I've used Opera for several years now and can't find what you're talking
about. Where is 'MainMenu' or 'W3Dev'?? I'm running a registered version,
no special skin, just a vanilla Opera ... //al

URL:http://webdeveloper.mozdev.org/

al jones wrote:

On 29 Apr 2005 17:54:02 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:


kchayka wrote:


Adam B wrote:

Disco Octopus wrote:

Once your done with the final version of your site, I am not sure if
you still want to keep the w3 link validation stuff for html/css.

These are mainly there for ease of checking as pages are updated.

FYI, you don't need a link in the page body to initiate validation for
that page. Get the Web Developer extension for Firefox/mozilla. It has
tools to validate any page, among other extremely useful development
aids. I believe Opera 7+ has inbuilt validation, too.

It's a heckuvan extension. I love it.

Yeppers re Opera. MainMmenu|W3-dev". Lots of stuff in there.


Excuse me if this is a dupe, I don't see my first posted about 2 hours ago.

I've used Opera for several years now and can't find what you're talking
about. Where is 'MainMenu' or 'W3Dev'?? I'm running a registered version,
no special skin, just a vanilla Opera ... //al

URL:http://webdeveloper.mozdev.org/

I just took a look and can't find it either. I did find that
a simple CTRL+ALT+V will validate the html in the current
page in Opera. This is a nice feature, but I have pretty
much abandoned Opera in favor of Firefox. I just tried out
the web developer toolbar extension and even after a quick
trial all I can say is Wow! It is an amazing piece of work.
I think I will get a lot of use out of it.

On 29 Apr 2005 17:54:02 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

kchayka wrote:

Adam B wrote:

Disco Octopus wrote:

Once your done with the final version of your site, I am not sure if
you still want to keep the w3 link validation stuff for html/css.

These are mainly there for ease of checking as pages are updated.

FYI, you don't need a link in the page body to initiate validation for
that page. Get the Web Developer extension for Firefox/mozilla. It has
tools to validate any page, among other extremely useful development
aids. I believe Opera 7+ has inbuilt validation, too.

It's a heckuvan extension. I love it.

Yeppers re Opera. MainMmenu|W3-dev". Lots of stuff in there.

I'm tired and missing the obvious, I've used Opera for a few years now and
don't see where you're pointing with 'MainMenu|W3Dev' can you be more
specofoc with you directions please. (Hell, I said I am tired!)

URL:http://webdeveloper.mozdev.org/

Jim Moe wrote:

Adam B wrote:


4. Calendar: It would look cleaner to use a table to list the events
instead of a <ul> and a slew of &nbsp;'s.

I will try this. It may take me a while. I have not looked into the
use of tables very much yet. Yes, the spaces are quite annoying. I
think HTML should have a space(#) function to insert a series of
nonbreaking spaces instead of requiring strings of &nbsp;.

The data you are presenting is tabular. So a table is an appropriate
element to use.

Not necessarily. Being 1-dimensional data, a definition list will
semantically represent it better.

--
Ben M.

Adam B wrote:

Jim Moe wrote:
Jim Moe wrote:

4. Calendar: It would look cleaner to use a table to list the events
instead of a <ul> and a slew of &nbsp;'s.

The data you are presenting is tabular. So a table is an appropriate
element to use.

A list seemed to do the job, and it was a simple method that I knew how
to implement.

A calendar can simply be represented by a definition list, and I would
say that it's semantically the most appropriate approach to take:

ol
!-- other months --
li>May 2005
dl
dt>May 12</dt
dd>Weekly meeting</dd
dt>May 13-15</dt
dd>Webelos Camporee</dd
dt>May 15</dt
dd>Weekly meeting</dd
dt>May 19</dt
dd>Weekly meeting</dd
dt>May 26</dt
dd>Weekly meeting</dd
/dl
/li
!-- other months --
/ol

Once the HTML is written, use CSS to style the lists (such as to setting
fonts and removing counters).

[snip] A
table sounds like a good idea if it will make the formatting easier.

Beware! Choosing tables for "formatting" (aka appearance, layout)
because it's "easier" is a dangerous frame of mind to take.

Tables for layout have severe disadvantages, and should only be used if
the author believes it's tabular data being marked-up. That is, tables
should be considered only if data needs to be referenced by rows and
columns.

In this particular case, I don't think the data warrants a table.

Hth,
--
Ben M.

al jones wrote:

On 29 Apr 2005 17:54:02 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

kchayka wrote:

Adam B wrote:

Disco Octopus wrote:

Once your done with the final version of your site, I am not sure
if you still want to keep the w3 link validation stuff for
html/css.

These are mainly there for ease of checking as pages are updated.

FYI, you don't need a link in the page body to initiate validation
for that page. Get the Web Developer extension for Firefox/mozilla.
It has tools to validate any page, among other extremely useful
development aids. I believe Opera 7+ has inbuilt validation, too.

It's a heckuvan extension. I love it.

Yeppers re Opera. MainMmenu|W3-dev". Lots of stuff in there.

I'm tired and missing the obvious, I've used Opera for a few years now
and don't see where you're pointing with 'MainMenu|W3Dev' can you be
more specofoc with you directions please. (Hell, I said I am tired!)

I can't describe it any more clearly than MainMenu|W3-dev. I don't
*remember* adding anything to Opera to enable this, so I've been
assuming it's there by default. If I *have* and *don't* remember it,
sorry 'bout that.

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/operatoolbar.gif

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Killing all Usenet posts from Google Groups
Info: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

On 30 Apr 2005 05:43:19 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

al jones wrote:

On 29 Apr 2005 17:54:02 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

kchayka wrote:

Adam B wrote:

Disco Octopus wrote:

Once your done with the final version of your site, I am not sure
if you still want to keep the w3 link validation stuff for
html/css.

These are mainly there for ease of checking as pages are updated.

FYI, you don't need a link in the page body to initiate validation
for that page. Get the Web Developer extension for Firefox/mozilla.
It has tools to validate any page, among other extremely useful
development aids. I believe Opera 7+ has inbuilt validation, too.

It's a heckuvan extension. I love it.

Yeppers re Opera. MainMmenu|W3-dev". Lots of stuff in there.

I'm tired and missing the obvious, I've used Opera for a few years now
and don't see where you're pointing with 'MainMenu|W3Dev' can you be
more specofoc with you directions please. (Hell, I said I am tired!)

I can't describe it any more clearly than MainMenu|W3-dev. I don't
*remember* adding anything to Opera to enable this, so I've been
assuming it's there by default. If I *have* and *don't* remember it,
sorry 'bout that.

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/operatoolbar.gif

Alzheimer is a real bitch, isn't it. That's an add-on menu from Toby
Inkster. Doesn't work in Opera 8 (or at least it doesn't install in Opera
8).
//al

al jones <alfredmjones (AT) shotmail (DOT) com> skreiv Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:20:45 +0200

On 29 Apr 2005 17:54:02 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

kchayka wrote:

Adam B wrote:

Disco Octopus wrote:

snip
I've used Opera for several years now and can't find what you're talking
about. Where is 'MainMenu' or 'W3Dev'?? I'm running a registered
version,
no special skin, just a vanilla Opera .. //al

<url:http://tobyinkster.co.uk/opera> - it's an addition to Opera. Although
I've had it work in previous versions of Opera, it doesn't seem to be
compatible with the latest and greatest: v8.

HTH.

:-) Y J Landro
--
Bruker Opera sin revolusjonerande e-postklient: http://www.opera.com/mail/