Another Site Critique Please

Hi,

Just finally getting around to a no tables page, css, which seems fairly
liquid and trouble free in explorer. Can someone please let me know if it's
holding together in your own browser. It does fine in 640x480 on up, in
mine, and it does validate. I've stayed away from non-tabled pages until
lately , trying to come up with something that will hold up, make the grade.

http://wholives.com

Thanks
Ringo

Ringo wrote:

Hi,

Just finally getting around to a no tables page, css, which seems fairly
liquid and trouble free in explorer. Can someone please let me know if it's
holding together in your own browser. It does fine in 640x480 on up, in
mine, and it does validate. I've stayed away from non-tabled pages until
lately , trying to come up with something that will hold up, make the grade.

http://wholives.com

Konqueror - footer problems; header partially hidden:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_konq.jpg

Firefox - footer okay, header better but probably closer to
Google/Nav/Search row than you want:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_ff.jpg

Opera - footer okay, probably how you want header to be placed:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_opera.jpg

--
Blinky
International Thank Your Developers Week - June 20-27, 2005
Say thanks to your favorite Open Source team one way or another.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/tydevs.html Yes, Eight Days A Week.

"Blinky the Shark" <no.spam (AT) box (DOT) invalid> wrote

Ringo wrote:
Hi,

Just finally getting around to a no tables page, css, which seems
fairly
liquid and trouble free in explorer. Can someone please let me know if
it's
holding together in your own browser. It does fine in 640x480 on up, in
mine, and it does validate. I've stayed away from non-tabled pages
until
lately , trying to come up with something that will hold up, make the
grade.

http://wholives.com

Konqueror - footer problems; header partially hidden:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_konq.jpg

Firefox - footer okay, header better but probably closer to
Google/Nav/Search row than you want:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_ff.jpg

Opera - footer okay, probably how you want header to be placed:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_opera.jpg

--
Blinky
International Thank Your Developers Week - June 20-27, 2005
Say thanks to your favorite Open Source team one way or another.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/tydevs.html Yes, Eight Days A Week.

Blinky,
Wow, now that's what I call service. CSS is difficult with vertical
alignment,
expecially when using <h#>, so I created my own. The ssi boxes were
defining
the height on those columns, so I added a <br> at the base, and also removed
the
border: css definitions previously on the row containers.

What's it doing now?

Thanks,
Ringo

Ringo wrote:

http://wholives.com

... but why is it that in some cases
I am able to get the floated boxes to always stretch to 100%, max? Oh,
is that only with table cells?

Of course you can set any box, including a floated one, to have 100%
height. The thing is, that that's 100% of its parent element, which
could be the body. This only works if the body also has a height of
100%, which is 100% of the viewport. Means that if the content of your
page is taller than the visitor's viewport, it will spill out of the
"100% height" boxes.

Exactly what does "display:block" mean?

The opposite of display:inline.

What exactly does this do?

It makes the element behave like a block level element, which means it
can understands width, height and padding.

Does the div only become a box, when blocked?

Divs are block level elements by nature.

When and why?

Always and just because. ;-)

As
far as "float" and "clear", each row has 3 boxes, floated left. I
also floated the row containers, and the main container. I went
back and clear:both to the footer and the footer row container box,
and is this correct.

Without diving into your code (which I don't have time for atm), I
didn't realise you were using rows. What I thought I saw, was a
header, a left floated sidebar, a right floated sidebar, and a content
area with margins to accommodate the floated sidebars. Oh, and a
footer.

I'm not really clear on exactly what float
and clear actually does. I actually thought that I needed the
footer to also float to the left border, like the rest. I'm
confused. I'll add some text, to see if the footer cooperates.

It should cooperate even without text. You don't know how wide or
narrow your visitor's window will be, so a lot of text might still be
only 3 lines, and one sentence might be 20 lines.

I truly appreciate your time, and any clarification that you might
provide.

Well, I can't provide much clarification on floats and clears I'm
afraid, I think you'll have to study a bit of CSS first. If you manage
to understand the way w3.org describes the standards, that would help
a lot, but if not, you'd best find a good tutorial on CSS, to
understand basic things like block level and inline elements, and how
they behave in the normal flow of a document. Only after you
understand that, you can start to take things out of the normal flow
and make them do what you want, by using floats, clears, and possibly
positioning.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

In message <3P-dnSYh--ZqMyLfRVn-tQ (AT) eatel (DOT) net>, Ringo <Ringo (AT) ms (DOT) com>
writes

Hi,

Just finally getting around to a no tables page, css, which seems fairly
liquid and trouble free in explorer. Can someone please let me know if it's
holding together in your own browser. It does fine in 640x480 on up, in
mine, and it does validate. I've stayed away from non-tabled pages until
lately , trying to come up with something that will hold up, make the grade.

http://wholives.com

Thanks
Ringo


You may wish to consider hiding your CSS from older browsers:

http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/newg/WHO03X.JPG (99k)

regards.

--
Jake
(jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk .... just a spam trap.)

Hi,

I also thought you guys might be interested in a few
real templates from macromedia mx. Just might
give some a few revelations, or so. The three column
are especially interesting, floating one right and two left,
not absolute positioning. The floating header on the two
column is also a cool trick.

http://wholives.com/design/templatescss/c2i-dw.htm

http://wholives.com/design/templatescss/c2j-dw.htm

http://wholives.com/design/templatescss/c3y-dw.htm

http://wholives.com/design/templatescss/c3z-dw.htm

Take Care,
Ringo

Ringo wrote:

Hi,

I also thought you guys might be interested in a few
real templates from macromedia mx.

Thanks for the thought (which counts ;-) ), but no thanks. I prefer
writing my own code, cause it gives me full control, and I know of
every little bit of code what it's for and why it's there.

http://wholives.com/design/templatescss/c2i-dw.htm

Just looked at that one, and really, I wouldn't want people to think I
wrote code like that. Lists of links aren't made up as lists - they're
just one <a> element after another, JavaScript, transitional doctype,
too small font, and there are still unnecessary tables in it!

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

Ringo wrote:

"Blinky the Shark" <no.spam (AT) box (DOT) invalid> wrote in message
news:slrndbvd2h.flv.no.spam (AT) thurston (DOT) blinkynet.net...
Ringo wrote:
Hi,

Just finally getting around to a no tables page, css, which seems
fairly
liquid and trouble free in explorer. Can someone please let me
know if
it's
holding together in your own browser. It does fine in 640x480 on
up, in mine, and it does validate. I've stayed away from
non-tabled pages
until
lately , trying to come up with something that will hold up, make
the
grade.

http://wholives.com

Konqueror - footer problems; header partially hidden:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_konq.jpg

Firefox - footer okay, header better but probably closer to
Google/Nav/Search row than you want:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_ff.jpg

Opera - footer okay, probably how you want header to be placed:

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/mikeys_opera.jpg

Blinky, Wow, now that's what I call service. CSS is difficult with
vertical alignment, expecially when using <h#>, so I created my own.
The ssi boxes were defining the height on those columns, so I added a
br> at the base, and also removed the border: css definitions
previously on the row containers.

What's it doing now?

Okay in all three browsers.

Before, as now, while I can't say it's a *problem*, the footer line
"Mikey's Domains, Truth Outreach, Since 1988, Online: 1996" comes
awfully close to the left nav column, vertically. To me it looks like
the border is about to crush the text, even though it's not done so yet.
Not a deal killer, but you might space it a little lower and see if
you don't like it better.

--
Blinky
International Thank Your Developers Week - June 20-27, 2005
Say thanks to your favorite Open Source team one way or another.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/tydevs.html Yes, Eight Days A Week.

"jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote

In message <3P-dnSYh--ZqMyLfRVn-tQ (AT) eatel (DOT) net>, Ringo <Ringo (AT) ms (DOT) com
writes
Hi,

Just finally getting around to a no tables page, css, which seems
fairly
liquid and trouble free in explorer. Can someone please let me know if
it's
holding together in your own browser. It does fine in 640x480 on up, in
mine, and it does validate. I've stayed away from non-tabled pages until
lately , trying to come up with something that will hold up, make the
grade.

http://wholives.com

Thanks
Ringo


You may wish to consider hiding your CSS from older browsers:
http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/newg/WHO03X.JPG (99k)

regards.

--
Jake
(jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk .... just a spam trap.)

jake and all,

Do I also need to do clear:both to all except the containers?
What I mean is that I did a float left in all divs, in containers
too!!!!!! ?????? Firefox has all divs aligned hard left. Is float
left in all divs what's causing this?

Well, it seems that I've gotten past the majority of problems,
but ended up problematic with your jpg. What do you guys
recommend? Go back to tables? The tables still have css
within the html source.

How do the absolute positioned css pages do, on average?
What about one like this one here:
http://wholives.com/design/templatescss/c3z-dw.htm

I truly appreciate any input or advice. Just trying to do what's
best, compatible and all.

Thanks,
Ringo

You may wish to consider hiding your CSS from older browsers:
http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/newg/WHO03X.JPG (99k)

regards.

--
Jake
(jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk .... just a spam trap.)

Jake,

I do have a copycat tabled template, and I wanted to ask how the page
looks in your old netscape 4.3.

http://wholives.com/design/templates3/t3a.htm

What would you do?

Thanks,
ringo