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Strategies for Non-JavaScript-Enabled Visitors...
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Strategies for Non-JavaScript-Enabled Visitors... -
04-30-2008
, 06:57 PM
#2
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| Design your site without any JS involved. If it works decently, add JS stuff as "nice-to-have-or-look-at". |
folks choose to disable JavaScript!
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E.g. the non JS version comes without popup calendar, error messages are not in modals, but plain server-generated messages. |
http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
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Forms must be validated on the server-side, but one can add AJAX functionality for a better response times. |
figured I'd learn with this webhost of mine, but it seems I may be
coming up against its technical limitations sooner or later!
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However, some features will lead to "parallel" (and labor-intense) solutions. E.g. the online shop. The classic one with checkboxes, the nice one with drag-and-drop baskets. |
too, which falls under the heading of "corny" and "inelegant"...I've
only got a few bits of JavaScript, actually, but they're "legit" and
important, like a JavaScript search engine (technically, a directory
pretending to be a search engine!)...I was wondering how best to
gracefully provide for such circumstances....
#3
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I'd be interest in strategies for dealing with those visitors who don't have JavaScript enabled |
If it is a conventional Web 1.0 site with Javascript used to "nice up"
your pages then check your pages with Javascript disabled to make sure
that they are still accessible, navigable and usable.
for a sample see for instance amazon.com or hotmail.com
If it is a Web 2.0 solution where client-side script-driven interface
is an essential part then don't forget to provide a user notification
with instructions what does he/she have to do to use your resources.
for a sample see for instance www.youtube.com or www.facebook.com
In either case <noscript> blocks are very handy.
#4
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On Apr 30, 7:03 pm, Gregor Kofler <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) at> wrote: Design your site without any JS involved. If it works decently, add JS stuff as "nice-to-have-or-look-at". Actually, that's exactly how I started out...then I realized that some folks choose to disable JavaScript! E.g. the non JS version comes without popup calendar, error messages are not in modals, but plain server-generated messages. Unfortunately, my webhost doesn't allow server-side scripting! http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html |
the <body> of your of your document, rather than a completely
empty one!
Figure out what you need to have so that visitors have something
to see _without_ resorting to JS or <noscript> blocks.
If you have stuff that absolutely has to be delivered via JS, load
it into <div>s with specific id values rather than constructing
the entire page that way.
Here's what I see when I visit your site in Firefox with the
NoScript plug-in enabled:
http://www.chem.utoronto.ca/~dstone/sunnyside.tiff
- stunning, isn't it?
#5
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| I would start by having your basic page layout contained within the <body> of your of your document, rather than a completely empty one! |
CSS file?!
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Figure out what you need to have so that visitors have something to see _without_ resorting to JS or <noscript> blocks. |
JavaScript as a kind of communication, since to my mind "special
effects" are like a sort of "body language" -- stuff that
communicates, but non-verbally. For visitors who would put on
"JavaScript blinders" I need to make content accessible, but without
making duplicate pages. Problem is, something like a modal window --
how else to get that same info across when JavaScript is disabled??
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If you have stuff that absolutely has to be delivered via JS, load it into <div>s with specific id values rather than constructing the entire page that way. |
needs to work...I was thinking of using the Google Free thinggy in
case JavaScript is disabled (Google Free isn't JavaScript, too, is
it??)....
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Here's what I see when I visit your site in Firefox with the NoScript plug-in enabled: http://www.chem.utoronto.ca/~dstone/sunnyside.tiff - stunning, isn't it? |
I have JavaScript disabled in Internet Explorer 7 (it was disabled by
default for some reason) and I can still view that site nicely, with
the JavaScript working just fine -- I think I wrote about it in my
"browser weirdness" thread on CLJ a month ago...for some reason,
http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html with all its JavaScript
worked fine but my offline site, which I tested in IE7 with JavaScript
disabled, didn't work (no image-swaps, etc.) -- ?!?!
But how did your NoScript plug-in do that??? How come simply
disabling JavaScript doesn't result in the same thing???
#6
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| So what? They get the not-soooo-pretty-but-still-perfectly-usable page. |
engine...that's what I have in mind (sorry I'm thinking aloud here, in
stream-of-consciousness fashion, when I should have said that right
from the beginning).
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Hey, then it's easy. You can forget about all the "serious" stuff, since XHR (aka AJAX) doesn't make (much) sense without server side scripting. |
seemed like a great way to learn for a newbie, but already, thanks in
great part to these newsgroups, I'm bumping up against their technical
limitations??? (Actually, just to be fair, it's not that they "can't"
do it but that their database-centered service doesn't allow it for
reasons particular to the sort of "automation" they provide.)
I think I'll stick with them just to keep learning -- their private
forums can be a great place for business ideas (just found a place in
NYC that will press a copy of your DVD product for you, cover and
keepcase and even drop-shipping, for US$2 each, with no minimum
order!!), and worth some money in itself -- and I'm not sure how much
server-side scripting I'd learn or want to learn, anyway...but it's a
bit deflating to feel right at the outset that there's a certain limit
to the technical progress my website might be able to make!
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Practically speaking: Yes. |
my "Book of JavaScript, Second Edition," so I haven't gotten to the
details just yet.
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As I said: It's *extremely* unlikely, to find a solution, where you just add some JS to your classic checkbox-driven shopping cart, and it becomes automagically a smooth drag-and-drop-application. |
I would be able to generate anyway; the website might be more a
learning experience than anything else), but I was wondering about my
directory of a JavaScript search engine and the information in modal
windows....
#7
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On May 1, 8:17 am, David Stone <no.em... (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote: I would start by having your basic page layout contained within the <body> of your of your document, rather than a completely empty one! Huh?? Have basic page layout in the <body> tag instead of an external CSS file?! |
empty, apart from some links server up by the JS.
[snip]
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Here's what I see when I visit your site in Firefox with the NoScript plug-in enabled: http://www.chem.utoronto.ca/~dstone/sunnyside.tiff - stunning, isn't it? Hey, wait a minute!! I have JavaScript disabled in Internet Explorer 7 (it was disabled by default for some reason) and I can still view that site nicely, with the JavaScript working just fine -- I think I wrote about it in my |
Disabled for ALL site, or only ones which aren't flagged as
trusted? It's been a long time since I poked preferences in
IE, and I don't have access to IE 7 at all, but my recollection
is that things a bit, um, "clearer" in Firefox and related browsers
compared to IE versions.
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But how did your NoScript plug-in do that??? How come simply disabling JavaScript doesn't result in the same thing??? |
you get the same thing...
#8
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| No, actual CONTENT - the page you gave in your URL was completely empty, apart from some links server up by the JS. |
know, and they're always preaching about web standards and "KISS"....
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[snip] Java or JavaScript? (Not the same thing!) |
affect *my* JavaScript! Other sites' JavaScripts work fine, but the
one I'm creating offline gets that MSIE 7 warning about ActiveX
Controls...?!
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Disabled for ALL site, or only ones which aren't flagged as trusted? It's been a long time since I poked preferences in IE, and I don't have access to IE 7 at all, but my recollection is that things a bit, um, "clearer" in Firefox and related browsers compared to IE versions. |
under 75% this year so far (though it must be said that they did help
push the technological envelope)...how do these companies make money
by giving away their browsers, anyway??
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Try installing Firefox and No-Script on your test box, and see if you get the same thing... |
Another thing, please, since you seem really knowledgeable about
browser matters: Firefox' JavaScript console popped up for the first
time today over a modal window I was wrestling with, but it never did
before, despite my being far from being even a competent Script
Kid...so why did it decide to do that today all of a sudden?
Furthermore, I erased the "log activity" of the console ('cause I
couldn't understand them anyway and wanted to regenerate the error
messages by re-running that problematic modal window script) but
despite still popping up, no more error messages were posted by the
console! What the font?!?!
#9
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On May 1, 12:28 pm, David Stone <no.em... (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote: No, actual CONTENT - the page you gave in your URL was completely empty, apart from some links server up by the JS. Hmm, didn't realize their page was like that! That's my webhost, you know, and they're always preaching about web standards and "KISS".... [snip] Java or JavaScript? (Not the same thing!) Actually, it's some kind of ActiveX "firewall" that seems to only affect *my* JavaScript! Other sites' JavaScripts work fine, but the one I'm creating offline gets that MSIE 7 warning about ActiveX Controls...?! |
You could try the Help function...
[snip]
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Another thing, please, since you seem really knowledgeable about browser matters: Firefox' JavaScript console popped up for the first time today over a modal window I was wrestling with, but it never did before, despite my being far from being even a competent Script Kid...so why did it decide to do that today all of a sudden? |
to set site-specific exceptions, and the Advanced... button for
JavaScript settings.
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Furthermore, I erased the "log activity" of the console ('cause I couldn't understand them anyway and wanted to regenerate the error messages by re-running that problematic modal window script) but despite still popping up, no more error messages were posted by the console! What the font?!?! |
#10
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Can't help you there - like I said, I don't have access to IE. You could try the Help function... [snip] Preferences > Content - note the different options, the ability to set site-specific exceptions, and the Advanced... button for JavaScript settings. No idea - try the Help function... |
"Help" is usually not helpful -- funny how they write those
things...they're basically reference material which would only be
relevant to people who already know how to use the app!
But thanks for all your suggestions!
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