Web page menu -- first or last?

If I could take a few minutes of your time, I wonder if the
sight-impaired amongst you could comment on my thoughts regarding menu
and main content access on a Web page:

The conventional layout of a Web page has the menu appearing as the
first entry, with the main content following.

Perceived wisdom is that the first item on a page should, therefore, be
a 'skip to content' link so that frequent visitors can bypass the
repetitive menu system on each page, but can still quickly access the
menu when they want to by simply going to the beginning of the page
using, for example, the [Home] key.

One suggestion that is sometimes made is that the main content should be
placed first, followed by the menu. In this way there is no need for a
'skip' link at the beginning of the page -- although one thought is that
you now need a 'skip to navigation' link as the first page entry ;-)

If there is no link, then the user would presumably have to jump to the
end of the page and tab back through the links in the menu.

What would be your preference? Menu first -- or last -- on a page?

Or doesn't it really matter because that's not how you work anyway?
(e.g. use of 'list-of-links' for navigation)

And as a subsidiary question: how useful would it be to set up a jump to
menu or content via an Access Key?

Thanks
--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:28:53 +0100, Jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk>
wrote:

If I could take a few minutes of your time, I wonder if the
sight-impaired amongst you could comment on my thoughts regarding menu
and main content access on a Web page:
Everything you've said is valid. I would prefer the main content

first to save having to skip all the links. As you say, if there is a
link to do this, it ain't so bad, but many sites don't have this.
It's particularly frustrating when each page on a site requires much
manipulation to get to the meat.
So maybe a compromise - links first on the home page then at the end
subsequently.

Putrid poetry, dismal doggerel, extrava-stanzas...
http://www.tiddyogg.co.uk

Jake wrote:

If I could take a few minutes of your time, I wonder if the
sight-impaired amongst you could comment on my thoughts regarding menu
and main content access on a Web page:

The conventional layout of a Web page has the menu appearing as the
first entry, with the main content following.

Perceived wisdom is that the first item on a page should, therefore, be
a 'skip to content' link so that frequent visitors can bypass the
repetitive menu system on each page, but can still quickly access the
menu when they want to by simply going to the beginning of the page
Yeah. Skip content is a good menu set-up to use, I don't use it but

that's because my sites do not have very big menu systems.. But they
are usefull if you have a lot of content to scroll through. Maybe check
out
http://groups.google.com.au/group/al...d 324a18217e3
That should give you more info.
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc

using, for example, the [Home] key.

One suggestion that is sometimes made is that the main content should be
placed first, followed by the menu. In this way there is no need for a
'skip' link at the beginning of the page -- although one thought is that
you now need a 'skip to navigation' link as the first page entry ;-)

If there is no link, then the user would presumably have to jump to the
end of the page and tab back through the links in the menu.

What would be your preference? Menu first -- or last -- on a page?

Or doesn't it really matter because that's not how you work anyway?
(e.g. use of 'list-of-links' for navigation)

And as a subsidiary question: how useful would it be to set up a jump to
menu or content via an Access Key?

Thanks
--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

Well, I like the jump to content myself, as in the first instance, you will
want the menu anyway.

The sort of pages that annoy me are those which use frames or some other way
to make the text update, and leave the menu there, often using some form of
combo box which is active that draws the focus away every time you roll the
box.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1 (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote

If I could take a few minutes of your time, I wonder if the sight-impaired
amongst you could comment on my thoughts regarding menu and main content
access on a Web page:

The conventional layout of a Web page has the menu appearing as the first
entry, with the main content following.

Perceived wisdom is that the first item on a page should, therefore, be a
'skip to content' link so that frequent visitors can bypass the repetitive
menu system on each page, but can still quickly access the menu when they
want to by simply going to the beginning of the page using, for example,
the [Home] key.

One suggestion that is sometimes made is that the main content should be
placed first, followed by the menu. In this way there is no need for a
'skip' link at the beginning of the page -- although one thought is that
you now need a 'skip to navigation' link as the first page entry ;-)

If there is no link, then the user would presumably have to jump to the
end of the page and tab back through the links in the menu.

What would be your preference? Menu first -- or last -- on a page?

Or doesn't it really matter because that's not how you work anyway? (e.g.
use of 'list-of-links' for navigation)

And as a subsidiary question: how useful would it be to set up a jump to
menu or content via an Access Key?

Thanks
--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

PS, does the html group you have crossposted to exist?

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1 (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jake" <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote

If I could take a few minutes of your time, I wonder if the sight-impaired
amongst you could comment on my thoughts regarding menu and main content
access on a Web page:

The conventional layout of a Web page has the menu appearing as the first
entry, with the main content following.

Perceived wisdom is that the first item on a page should, therefore, be a
'skip to content' link so that frequent visitors can bypass the repetitive
menu system on each page, but can still quickly access the menu when they
want to by simply going to the beginning of the page using, for example,
the [Home] key.

One suggestion that is sometimes made is that the main content should be
placed first, followed by the menu. In this way there is no need for a
'skip' link at the beginning of the page -- although one thought is that
you now need a 'skip to navigation' link as the first page entry ;-)

If there is no link, then the user would presumably have to jump to the
end of the page and tab back through the links in the menu.

What would be your preference? Menu first -- or last -- on a page?

Or doesn't it really matter because that's not how you work anyway? (e.g.
use of 'list-of-links' for navigation)

And as a subsidiary question: how useful would it be to set up a jump to
menu or content via an Access Key?

Thanks
--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

In message <1iO3f.128973$G8.100859 (AT) text (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Brian
Gaff <Briang1 (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk> writes

PS, does the html group you have crossposted to exist?

Brian

Yes -- although not very active.

If someone does post in the 'accessibility' groups, there's occasionally
a response or two.

Regards.
--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:41:03 +0100, Jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk>
wrote:

In message <1iO3f.128973$G8.100859 (AT) text (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Brian
Gaff <Briang1 (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk> writes
PS, does the html group you have crossposted to exist?

Brian

Yes -- although not very active.

If someone does post in the 'accessibility' groups, there's occasionally
a response or two.

Regards.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to check out the forum
over at www.accessifyforum.com.

Lots of people over there who are very well-informed on the issue of
designing accessible websites.

Janner

___

The VIP Consumer: consumer reviews and discussion from a visually impaired perspective.
www.vipconsumer.com

In message <3lsvk1llsgog87kia30u9ocishgpop4mch (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, Janner
<janner (AT) mothanks (DOT) ?.invalid> writes

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:41:03 +0100, Jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk
wrote:

In message <1iO3f.128973$G8.100859 (AT) text (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Brian
Gaff <Briang1 (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk> writes
PS, does the html group you have crossposted to exist?

Brian

Yes -- although not very active.

If someone does post in the 'accessibility' groups, there's occasionally
a response or two.

Regards.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to check out the forum
over at www.accessifyforum.com.

Lots of people over there who are very well-informed on the issue of
designing accessible websites.

Janner

___

The VIP Consumer: consumer reviews and discussion from a visually
impaired perspective.
www.vipconsumer.com

Thanks. I'm familiar with that forum. My interest is really in what
people who need to use assistive technology think, rather than what
people who design the sites *think* they need.

Regards.

--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

Jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

...
My interest is really in what people who need to use assistive
technology think, rather than what people who design the sites *think*
they need.

Thanks for posting, unfortunately replies from site builders are most
common. It would appear to a casual observer that those in need of
assistive technology are satisfied with the service they receive from web
sites in general.

Did you get sufficient replies elsewhere (I only subscribe to
alt.html.web-accessibility) to arrive at a conclusion?

--
William Tasso

In message <op.syuctzjq3jnr2w-wnt (AT) tbdata (DOT) com>, William Tasso
<spamblocked (AT) tbdata (DOT) com> writes

Jake <jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

...
My interest is really in what people who need to use assistive
technology think, rather than what people who design the sites *think*
they need.

Thanks for posting, unfortunately replies from site builders are most
common. It would appear to a casual observer that those in need of
assistive technology are satisfied with the service they receive from
web sites in general.

Did you get sufficient replies elsewhere (I only subscribe to
alt.html.web-accessibility) to arrive at a conclusion?

You've seen all the replies ;-(

I guess I'll stick to 'perceived wisdom' ... i.e. a 'skip to main
content' link at the start of every page (if necessary).

Regards.

--
Jake (jake (AT) gododdin (DOT) demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)