your thoughts please

I was talking to a friend at the pub the other night and he mentioned
that he had been approached by an SEO company to promote his site - the
SEO company is firstfound.co.uk

Has anyone encountered them or their services?

I looked at one of their projects and wasn't too impressed. Couldn't
find it on Google for the primary phrase and 20th (UK search only) for a
secondary phrase. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling if this is a
new project that they are bringing on.

They themselves are #1 for "search engine consultants" without the quotes.

They guarantee at least a top ten placing with the top 50 search engines
or they refund your money. Here's the blurb.

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound under
this agreement in full".

They appear to offer no links them selves (well, on the one site I
checked) and put a link to their site from the customer's, feathering
their bed nicely.

Also, this is from their site;

"Unfortunately getting a high listing for your product or service is a
very difficult and time consuming thing to achieve and maintain,
involving optimising your site and repeated search engine submission."

I don't think I have ever submitted to a search engine (not counting DMOZ).

The cost for what they are offering? Initial fee £149 + VAT then a
monthly fee (for 1 year) £34.00 + VAT.

This seem incredibly cheap if they deliver what they claim, doesn't it?

Admittedly, this is a very small site we are talking about - no more
than 8 pages - but still...

He's tempted to try it as he doesn't get much business through his site
and none at all through search engines.

My initial thought was to tell him not to bother but if they guarantee
your money back for no results...

What do you all think?

Jez.

--
Rustic Stone House Signs
www.rusticstone.net

On Fri, 07 May 2004 17:41:40 +0100, Jez <j.ez (AT) virgin (DOT) net> wrote:

I was talking to a friend at the pub the other night and he mentioned
that he had been approached by an SEO company to promote his site - the
SEO company is firstfound.co.uk

Has anyone encountered them or their services?

I looked at one of their projects and wasn't too impressed. Couldn't
find it on Google for the primary phrase and 20th (UK search only) for a
secondary phrase. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling if this is a
new project that they are bringing on.

They themselves are #1 for "search engine consultants" without the quotes.

They guarantee at least a top ten placing with the top 50 search engines
or they refund your money. Here's the blurb.

The top 50? There's a top 50?

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound under
this agreement in full".

Er, by when? The year 3000? 4000? And why do they say the customer's
web site addy, which we must assume is the url? Do we take this to
mean if one inputs one's url into the, ahem, top 50 engines then gosh
almighty your own url will be returned in the top ten serps?
What about your keywords? I don't see any mention of them.

They appear to offer no links them selves (well, on the one site I
checked) and put a link to their site from the customer's, feathering
their bed nicely.

Also, this is from their site;

"Unfortunately getting a high listing for your product or service is a
very difficult and time consuming thing to achieve and maintain,
involving optimising your site and repeated search engine submission."

They missed out "and will mean you have to give all your money to us
even though we make absolutely no guarantee of being able to do
anything even related to it and repeated engine submission is
absolutely what you shouldn't do......".

I don't think I have ever submitted to a search engine (not counting DMOZ).

The cost for what they are offering? Initial fee £149 + VAT then a
monthly fee (for 1 year) £34.00 + VAT.

This seem incredibly cheap if they deliver what they claim, doesn't it?

No, it seems entirely pointless as they claim nothing escept what will
happen anyway without any actions by third parties..

Admittedly, this is a very small site we are talking about - no more
than 8 pages - but still...

He's tempted to try it as he doesn't get much business through his site
and none at all through search engines.

Nah, tell him to forget about it, they're not even good con artists.

My initial thought was to tell him not to bother but if they guarantee
your money back for no results...

But by the criterion they've laid out results will come. they'll claim
credit but it'll be nothing to do with them.

What do you all think?

I think they're wankers.

BB

They themselves are #1 for "search engine consultants" without the quotes.

According to the oveture suggestion tool at:
http://inventory.overture.com/d/sear...ry/suggestion/
324 people search for "search engine consultants" each month. That, quite
frankly, is peanuts. If they're blowing their horn about this, then there's
something is decidedly dodgy about them. It seem to me that they're relying
on ignorance to get business.

If you search on Google with the quotes on "search engine consultants"
you'll see only 3,600 sites returned. It's not a competitive serp and it
wouldn't take too much work to get to number one for this.

Regards

--
Andrew Gibson

JELLYPIE SOFTWARE
Digital Video Editing Software, FAQ's, Resources and Filming Tips.
http://www.jellypie.co.uk

"Jez" <j.ez (AT) virgin (DOT) net> wrote

I was talking to a friend at the pub the other night and he mentioned
that he had been approached by an SEO company to promote his site - the
SEO company is firstfound.co.uk

Has anyone encountered them or their services?

I looked at one of their projects and wasn't too impressed. Couldn't
find it on Google for the primary phrase and 20th (UK search only) for a
secondary phrase. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling if this is a
new project that they are bringing on.

They themselves are #1 for "search engine consultants" without the quotes.

They guarantee at least a top ten placing with the top 50 search engines
or they refund your money. Here's the blurb.

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound under
this agreement in full".

They appear to offer no links them selves (well, on the one site I
checked) and put a link to their site from the customer's, feathering
their bed nicely.

Also, this is from their site;

"Unfortunately getting a high listing for your product or service is a
very difficult and time consuming thing to achieve and maintain,
involving optimising your site and repeated search engine submission."

I don't think I have ever submitted to a search engine (not counting
DMOZ).

The cost for what they are offering? Initial fee £149 + VAT then a
monthly fee (for 1 year) £34.00 + VAT.

This seem incredibly cheap if they deliver what they claim, doesn't it?

Admittedly, this is a very small site we are talking about - no more
than 8 pages - but still...

He's tempted to try it as he doesn't get much business through his site
and none at all through search engines.

My initial thought was to tell him not to bother but if they guarantee
your money back for no results...

What do you all think?

Jez.

--
Rustic Stone House Signs
www.rusticstone.net

The objective is to be listed consistently in the top 10, for *your* choice
of search words and on the top 2 or 3 search engines.

If you do not choose the search words then the company may chose something
obscure ( like your url ) and show you in the top 10, but this will do you
no good at all as your actual customers are unlikely to use these words.

If a company offers guarantees be wary. A company that offers 3 man-days
work effort on the site plus some advice to you as to what to do afterwards
sounds more realistic. Then wait 6 months and may be you will be better
rated. Much depends on the quality of your content. If a page is
excellent quality it deserves to be higher up, if a page is poor quality it
deserves to stay lower down.

Best regards, Eric.

On Fri, 07 May 2004 17:41:40 +0100, Jez <j.ez (AT) virgin (DOT) net> wrote:

I was talking to a friend at the pub the other night and he mentioned
that he had been approached by an SEO company to promote his site - the
SEO company is firstfound.co.uk

I'd run away from any company that goes touting for business. If they
can't even get enough business via the search engines or even SEO
forums they are supposed to be experts on do they also expect their
clients to do the same?

It's not hard to get SEO clients from Google, this and other NGs and
the dozens of SEO forums.

Has anyone encountered them or their services?

I looked at one of their projects and wasn't too impressed. Couldn't
find it on Google for the primary phrase and 20th (UK search only) for a
secondary phrase. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling if this is a
new project that they are bringing on.

They themselves are #1 for "search engine consultants" without the quotes.

It's a very, very low traffic phrase and they have it because they add
a link to their own site from all their clients sites using that
phrase!! The power of anchor text. Since they aren't offering links to
a clients sites this result doesn't indicate what they can do for you.

The site isn't SEO'd very well, notice the links at the bottom, only
one contains keywords the rest are a wasted opportunity.

They guarantee at least a top ten placing with the top 50 search engines
or they refund your money. Here's the blurb.

50 search engines! I couldn't list 50 real search engines.

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound under
this agreement in full".

Does that mean a top 10 listing for a search for your URL?

They appear to offer no links them selves (well, on the one site I
checked) and put a link to their site from the customer's, feathering
their bed nicely.

I don't like SEOs who do that. We are supposed to be helping our
clients sites not our own.

Also, this is from their site;

"Unfortunately getting a high listing for your product or service is a
very difficult and time consuming thing to achieve and maintain,
involving optimising your site and repeated search engine submission."

I don't think I have ever submitted to a search engine (not counting DMOZ).

Exactly. I'm surprised after you read this you even bothered checking
any further. Submitting a site to the main search engines is a waste
of time, unless it's the ones you pay for submission to guarantee a
listing (you can do that yourself).

The cost for what they are offering? Initial fee £149 + VAT then a
monthly fee (for 1 year) £34.00 + VAT.

This seem incredibly cheap if they deliver what they claim, doesn't it?

I don't think they claim to deliver anything. If you read the
guarantee it's not saying they guarantee top 10 for your main SERP
instead top 10 for your site or the links to your site? Last bit is
interesting, why would you want the links to your site to get in the
top 10?

Admittedly, this is a very small site we are talking about - no more
than 8 pages - but still...

He's tempted to try it as he doesn't get much business through his site
and none at all through search engines.

My initial thought was to tell him not to bother but if they guarantee
your money back for no results...

I'd read a little deeper about the guarantee first, it's not worded in
a way that is clear, so could easily be twisted so you don't get your
money back.

What do you all think?

Run away.

Jez.

David
--
http://www.seo-serps.com

"Jez" <j.ez (AT) virgin (DOT) net> wrote

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound under
this agreement in full".

I once again find myself wondering what happens if 11 customers want the
same keywords.

And, having written that, I note that they don't mention keywords, they just
say you'll be in the Top 10. Maybe they can get you top 10 for "underwater
naturist chess championship" or something, but is that what you want?

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.

http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com

On Fri, 7 May 2004 23:10:02 +0100, "Jaxtraw"
<jaxtraw (AT) nospamnobigfoot (DOT) com> wrote:

"Jez" <j.ez (AT) virgin (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:2g1scnF3iua9U1 (AT) uni-berlin (DOT) de...

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound under
this agreement in full".

I once again find myself wondering what happens if 11 customers want the
same keywords.

And, having written that, I note that they don't mention keywords, they just
say you'll be in the Top 10. Maybe they can get you top 10 for "underwater
naturist chess championship" or something, but is that what you want?

Ian
Ian,

I noticed in another post that you say that *shagging* is now
acceptable
well, I will have you know that the word and the action are truly not
acceptable - I prefer *lovemaking*


Feel Free to Vote for Me - www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/
I listen - I create policies
Classic Authors Appreciation Society - www.bleachboys.com/caas/

"Damian John Paul Brown" <damian (AT) phpexpert (DOT) org> wrote

On Fri, 7 May 2004 23:10:02 +0100, "Jaxtraw"
jaxtraw (AT) nospamnobigfoot (DOT) com> wrote:

I noticed in another post that you say that *shagging* is now
acceptable
well, I will have you know that the word and the action are truly not
acceptable - I prefer *lovemaking*

Why didn't you respond to that post? Shagging and lovemaking are two
different things in my book. You can shag someone and have no love to it.
:-)

"Stacey" <stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote

"Damian John Paul Brown" <damian (AT) phpexpert (DOT) org> wrote in message
news:rb4o9098cofoj66mhj8p3e9d66o5liihcc (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Fri, 7 May 2004 23:10:02 +0100, "Jaxtraw"
jaxtraw (AT) nospamnobigfoot (DOT) com> wrote:

I noticed in another post that you say that *shagging* is now
acceptable
well, I will have you know that the word and the action are truly not
acceptable - I prefer *lovemaking*

Why didn't you respond to that post? Shagging and lovemaking are two
different things in my book. You can shag someone and have no love to it.
:-)

They're too different things in my comic strip as well

Ian

"Damian John Paul Brown" <damian (AT) phpexpert (DOT) org> wrote

On Fri, 7 May 2004 23:10:02 +0100, "Jaxtraw"
jaxtraw (AT) nospamnobigfoot (DOT) com> wrote:

"Jez" <j.ez (AT) virgin (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:2g1scnF3iua9U1 (AT) uni-berlin (DOT) de...

"If firstfound fail to obtain at least top ten listings for the
customer's website address or links to that address with the top 50
search engines firstfound will refund all money paid to firstfound
under
this agreement in full".

I once again find myself wondering what happens if 11 customers want the
same keywords.

And, having written that, I note that they don't mention keywords, they
just
say you'll be in the Top 10. Maybe they can get you top 10 for
"underwater
naturist chess championship" or something, but is that what you want?

Ian
Ian,
I noticed in another post that you say that *shagging* is now
acceptable
well, I will have you know that the word and the action are truly not
acceptable - I prefer *lovemaking*

Well, that's it then. I'm voting Liberal Democrat. Damned if I'm voting for
somebody who thinks sex is unacceptable.

Ian

--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.

http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com