Stemming (was: SEO for my site)

Mike wrote:

Hi,

I posted a message last week (SEO for my site) explaining how I lost my good
Google position. Now I can see that the singular version of the keyword
gives me a great position number 12. It's the plural version, only, which
puts me on position number 39.

As far as I know Google introduced stemming a couple of years ago. Their
stemming technology doesn't seem to be so accurate managing singular /
plural.

My keyword is "vst plugin" (or the plural "vst plugins") and the URL is
http://www.mhc.se

Is there anything I can do, except replacing all the singular occurences
with plural. The problem is that it's really hard to replace all singular
occurences with plural and still have the page meaningful for the visitor.

/Mike

MHC Synthesizers and Effects
http://www.mhc.se

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Id say that would help you

Jay

Hi,

I posted a message last week (SEO for my site) explaining how I lost my good
Google position. Now I can see that the singular version of the keyword
gives me a great position number 12. It's the plural version, only, which
puts me on position number 39.

As far as I know Google introduced stemming a couple of years ago. Their
stemming technology doesn't seem to be so accurate managing singular /
plural.

My keyword is "vst plugin" (or the plural "vst plugins") and the URL is
http://www.mhc.se

Is there anything I can do, except replacing all the singular occurences
with plural. The problem is that it's really hard to replace all singular
occurences with plural and still have the page meaningful for the visitor.

/Mike

MHC Synthesizers and Effects
http://www.mhc.se

Get more links - Add more content - Submit site to social bookmarking
sites

Id say that would help you

Jay

But why Google don't seem to recognize the singular version being "the same"
as the plural?

They treat them totally differently. Although they claim to have introduced
stemming technology a couple of
years ago.

/Mike

MHC Synthesizers and Effects
http://www.mhc.se

"Mike" <mike (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote

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sites

Id say that would help you

Jay

But why Google don't seem to recognize the singular version being "the
same"
as the plural?

They treat them totally differently. Although they claim to have
introduced
stemming technology a couple of
years ago.

Yes, they have applied stemming, but that doesn't mean that it will rank the
same. I have a site that is #1 for rag rugs and throw rugs. It doesn't mean
I will be #1 for the singular version, but it will be related to the
singular version. If a site is more optimized for the singular version then
it will be before mine. I do rank well for the singular versions but not #1.

Stacey
--
SEO - Web Design
http://jezsta.com/
Article - Internet Marketing Wholesale Drop Shipping
http://jezsta.com/internet-marketing...opshipping.htm

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:46:31 GMT, "Mike" <mike (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi,

I posted a message last week (SEO for my site) explaining how I lost my good
Google position. Now I can see that the singular version of the keyword
gives me a great position number 12. It's the plural version, only, which
puts me on position number 39.

As far as I know Google introduced stemming a couple of years ago. Their
stemming technology doesn't seem to be so accurate managing singular /
plural.

My keyword is "vst plugin" (or the plural "vst plugins") and the URL is
http://www.mhc.se

Is there anything I can do, except replacing all the singular occurences
with plural. The problem is that it's really hard to replace all singular
occurences with plural and still have the page meaningful for the visitor.

Why worry?

BB
--

http://www.kruse.co.uk/internet-mark...l-business.htm
http://www.kruse.co.uk/google-mountain.htm
http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-tips.htm

Mike wrote:

Is there anything I can do, except replacing all the singular
occurences with plural. The problem is that it's really hard to
replace all singular occurences with plural and still have the page
meaningful for the visitor.

Making your site less meaningful for visitors in the hopes of moving up
a little in Google doesn't make sense.

Write for your visitors. Let Google do what it can for you. Find a way
to plug your site that does not depend on Google.

James Helliwell wrote:

Mike wrote:
Hi,

I posted a message last week (SEO for my site) explaining how I lost my good
Google position. Now I can see that the singular version of the keyword
gives me a great position number 12. It's the plural version, only, which
puts me on position number 39.

As far as I know Google introduced stemming a couple of years ago. Their
stemming technology doesn't seem to be so accurate managing singular /
plural.

My keyword is "vst plugin" (or the plural "vst plugins") and the URL is
http://www.mhc.se

Is there anything I can do, except replacing all the singular occurences
with plural. The problem is that it's really hard to replace all singular
occurences with plural and still have the page meaningful for the visitor.

/Mike

MHC Synthesizers and Effects
http://www.mhc.se





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Id say that would help you

Jay

Back when i started writing for the web, very few search engines (this
was pre-google) used stemming -- and when they did, the results were
often ludicrous. I recall one search engine that could only add an S --
TOOTH and TOOTHS, but not TEETH. When you searched on TEETH, it asked if
you meant to type VOTE. I am not kidding. This was back in the 1990s.

So i built my site(s) without relying on stemming. I used each word in
several contexts/ If i wanted to write about herb magic, i also wrote
about the magic o herbs. And the magical uses of herbs. And herbal
magic, herbal magics, herb magick, herbal magicks, and magickal herb
spells. I got tot the poin where i could turn out several paragraphs of
really useful information -- stuff that people wanted to read --

I wrote about herbs in magic. I wrote about this magic herb and that
magical herb. I wrote about herb magic and about herb-magick, and even
about herbalistic majiks.

And although this type of syntax would not have earned me an "A" in
grammar or English Lit class, it earned me 20,000 unqiue visitors per
day.

Years later, when stemming finally became semi-reliable, it didn't make
a bit of difference to me -- because i was already in the top 10 for
just about every keyword, set of keywords, hypheated key-words, and in
fact any key-word set i had selected all those yars ago.

The moral of the story: Forget stemming, forget spelling, forget
grammar. Write a STORY about your product, an interesting tale. Make it
readable and spell everything creatively, adaptively, and, above all, multifariously.

Good luck.

cat yronwode
http://www.herb-magic.com herbs, magicks, and herb-magic

Jezsta Web Productions wrote:

"Mike" <mike (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:OsPUh.38704$E02.15589 (AT) newsb (DOT) telia.net...
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Id say that would help you

Jay

But why Google don't seem to recognize the singular version being "the
same"
as the plural?

They treat them totally differently. Although they claim to have
introduced
stemming technology a couple of
years ago.

Yes, they have applied stemming, but that doesn't mean that it will rank the
same. I have a site that is #1 for rag rugs and throw rugs. It doesn't mean
I will be #1 for the singular version, but it will be related to the
singular version. If a site is more optimized for the singular version then
it will be before mine. I do rank well for the singular versions but not #1.

Stacey
--
SEO - Web Design
http://jezsta.com/
Article - Internet Marketing Wholesale Drop Shipping
http://jezsta.com/internet-marketing...opshipping.htm

But, Stacey, you're like me -- you write you way all around the barn,
and each term is used in a variety of ways, right? I mean, that's the
true secret here -- if one could call it a secret -- use as any parallel
constructions as you can comfortably fit into a block of informative and
easy-to-read body copy.

cat yronwode
http://www.luckymojo.com Lucky Mojo Occult Shop
http://www.herb-magic.com Herb Magic Natural Magick Spells with Herbs

Jezsta Web Productions wrote:

"catherine yronwode" <cat (AT) herb-magic (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:462E76CC.900D23BC (AT) herb-magic (DOT) com...
Jezsta Web Productions wrote:

"Mike" <mike (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:OsPUh.38704$E02.15589 (AT) newsb (DOT) telia.net...
Get more links - Add more content - Submit site to social bookmarking
sites

Id say that would help you

Jay

But why Google don't seem to recognize the singular version being "the
same"
as the plural?

They treat them totally differently. Although they claim to have
introduced
stemming technology a couple of
years ago.

Yes, they have applied stemming, but that doesn't mean that it will rank
the
same. I have a site that is #1 for rag rugs and throw rugs. It doesn't
mean
I will be #1 for the singular version, but it will be related to the
singular version. If a site is more optimized for the singular version
then
it will be before mine. I do rank well for the singular versions but not
#1.



But, Stacey, you're like me -- you write you way all around the barn,
and each term is used in a variety of ways, right? I mean, that's the
true secret here -- if one could call it a secret -- use as any parallel
constructions as you can comfortably fit into a block of informative and
easy-to-read body copy.

Yes, Cat that is the secret I think. To just write like a letter,
explanation, like you are chatting. Also, I am aware of using the terms
several times, kind of like in school with a research paper, when they said
you must make sure the reader knows what the paper is about at the
beginning, middle, and end.

I do feel it is very important even with stemming that a person should still
use all forms of the word somehow in their copy. Just sit and write, leave
it and always come back to it, as more things will come to mind next month
or longer. Sometimes words come faster, then other times it can be slow and
hard to come up with content. But I always come back to a page and can add
more and change. I feel it is important to go through your sites and read
pages every now and then as at times you find that you can change a way
something is said. Of course Cat, I know you have loads of pages and content
on some of your sites, and that might be hard to do- go back and read every
now and then.:-)

Stacey

--
SEO - Web Design
http://jezsta.com/
Article - Internet Marketing Wholesale Drop Shipping
http://jezsta.com/internet-marketing...opshipping.htm

Hi, Stacey. Yes, i do exactly what you recommended just now. I do go
back and upgrade and twiddle with old pages. I find new ways to link
them.

I also do multi-file serch-and-replace thingees when i write a new page
that can be linked from a hundred or so old pages. (Example: i write a
page on SALT and then i perform a find-and-replace on all my extant
pages, changing the word "salt" to the LINKED word "salt" and then i
re-upload them all.)

It's work, of course, but keeping a big web site up and running for
years is like running any other kind of enterprise.

cat yronwode
http://www.southern-spirits.com Ex-Slave Narratives

"catherine yronwode" <cat (AT) herb-magic (DOT) com> wrote

Jezsta Web Productions wrote:

"Mike" <mike (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:OsPUh.38704$E02.15589 (AT) newsb (DOT) telia.net...
Get more links - Add more content - Submit site to social bookmarking
sites

Id say that would help you

Jay

But why Google don't seem to recognize the singular version being "the
same"
as the plural?

They treat them totally differently. Although they claim to have
introduced
stemming technology a couple of
years ago.

Yes, they have applied stemming, but that doesn't mean that it will rank
the
same. I have a site that is #1 for rag rugs and throw rugs. It doesn't
mean
I will be #1 for the singular version, but it will be related to the
singular version. If a site is more optimized for the singular version
then
it will be before mine. I do rank well for the singular versions but not
#1.



But, Stacey, you're like me -- you write you way all around the barn,
and each term is used in a variety of ways, right? I mean, that's the
true secret here -- if one could call it a secret -- use as any parallel
constructions as you can comfortably fit into a block of informative and
easy-to-read body copy.

Yes, Cat that is the secret I think. To just write like a letter,
explanation, like you are chatting. Also, I am aware of using the terms
several times, kind of like in school with a research paper, when they said
you must make sure the reader knows what the paper is about at the
beginning, middle, and end.

I do feel it is very important even with stemming that a person should still
use all forms of the word somehow in their copy. Just sit and write, leave
it and always come back to it, as more things will come to mind next month
or longer. Sometimes words come faster, then other times it can be slow and
hard to come up with content. But I always come back to a page and can add
more and change. I feel it is important to go through your sites and read
pages every now and then as at times you find that you can change a way
something is said. Of course Cat, I know you have loads of pages and content
on some of your sites, and that might be hard to do- go back and read every
now and then.:-)

Stacey

--
SEO - Web Design
http://jezsta.com/
Article - Internet Marketing Wholesale Drop Shipping
http://jezsta.com/internet-marketing...opshipping.htm