SEO - CSS or table based layout best?

Normally I lay out all my sites using CSS [browser compatibilty can be a bit
of a pain, but ther ya go LOL] I was wondering since the Alg's are
constantly improving. Does it make any difference whether I use CSS or
tables for my layout?
I have a complex interface to a site I need to do and in CSS it'll be a
nightmare. With tables it'll oinly take a few hours. Obviously I don't
want to 'waste time' if there is litttle or no discernable differnce.
Thanks in advance.

wayne...

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:46:12 -0000, "Wayne..."
<w.robson (AT) oneteldsl (DOT) net> wrote:

Normally I lay out all my sites using CSS [browser compatibilty can be a bit
of a pain, but ther ya go LOL] I was wondering since the Alg's are
constantly improving. Does it make any difference whether I use CSS or
tables for my layout?
I have a complex interface to a site I need to do and in CSS it'll be a
nightmare. With tables it'll oinly take a few hours. Obviously I don't
want to 'waste time' if there is litttle or no discernable differnce.
Thanks in advance.

wayne...

Realistically if you get the code done right and in an economical
manner I don't suppose it would be a giant factor. So long as your
syntax is correct I'd use tables.

BB

--
www.kruse.co.uk SEO (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
home of SEO that's shiny!
--

"Wayne..." <w.robson (AT) oneteldsl (DOT) net> wrote


<snip>

I have a complex interface to a site I need to do and in CSS it'll be a
nightmare. With tables it'll oinly take a few hours.

I wonder what can be such a complex interface that it would be nightmare
with CSS There probably are some, but I can't think of that much any such
interfaces yet I'd run into really. Any bit similar example of site that
would have somewhat similar interface, I am just curious here.

<snip>

Wÿrm:

I wonder what can be such a complex interface that it would be nightmare
with CSS

Even the most basic 3-column layout is a nightmare with IE5.

"If you are trying to do pixel-perfect cross-browser CSS layout, you will
often run into problems with IE5x PC because it radically mis-implements
the box model as prescribed by the W3C. There are several workarounds for
this problem, not the least of which is to simply not design with pixel
precision [...] (#3 and #4 are the recommended methods)
[...]
Exploit an IE5x PC CSS parsing bug -- RECOMMENDED
This hack allows us to prematurely close a style rule in IE5x PC because
of a bug in its CSS parsing code."
http://glish.com/css/hacks.asp

--
René Pijlman

Wat wil jij leren? http://www.leren.nl

"Rene Pijlman" <reply.in.the.newsgroup (AT) my (DOT) address.is.invalid> wrote in
message news:q3l0s0lq3p26u19ccve4j3lapjrbj52ddn (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

<snip>

Even the most basic 3-column layout is a nightmare with IE5.

Hmm, havent looked that too closely (my box with IE 5 is currently under
re-installs), but not the impression I have had...


<snip>

"If you are trying to do pixel-perfect cross-browser CSS layout

Ah, but that's the problem. web is NOT pixel perfect media now is it? We
all can have different browser canvas size, different font size, different
screen size, etc etc.. So if there's so many different variables and
possible valies for them, why even expect to get anything "pixel perfect"?

Even trying to make pixel prefect layout with tables (or CSS) fall down by
simple reasons like fontsize settings or fontsize changes people do in page


People who think net is pixel perfect are living in DDP times and haven't
realized yet that net is NOT fixed size canvas media

People have different screen resolutions, different browsers, different font
settings to OVERRIDE preferences page creators use etc.. So to try aim pixel
perfect layout is foolishness

You can get decently "close" of pixel perfection, but still, mostly it's
waste of time. Do you think that same person look website with 2 different
browser and say "aha! that stuffs' 3 pixeljog size wrong in IE etc?

Just do layout that looks pretty closely same on most cases and Bob's your
uncle


<snip>

Exploit an IE5x PC CSS parsing bug -- RECOMMENDED
This hack allows us to prematurely close a style rule in IE5x PC because
of a bug in its CSS parsing code."
http://glish.com/css/hacks.asp

One can't cater everyone no mater if use table or CSS for design for me,
about 4% of IE 5 share is most cases acceptable "loss" like NS 4 (with what,
< 1% share) in way that in their browsers content is there and alll, just
might not be same layout as for others.

Still, no offence, this is just my opinion.

<snip>

Wÿrm:

"If you are trying to do pixel-perfect cross-browser CSS layout

Ah, but that's the problem. web is NOT pixel perfect media now is it? We
all can have different browser canvas size, different font size, different
screen size, etc etc.. So if there's so many different variables and
possible valies for them, why even expect to get anything "pixel perfect"?

This is true, but the IE5 bugs are somewhat more serious than a deviating
pixel here and there.

One can't cater everyone no mater if use table or CSS for design for me,
about 4% of IE 5 share is most cases acceptable "loss" like NS 4 (with what,
1% share) in way that in their browsers content is there and alll, just
might not be same layout as for others.

Still, no offence, this is just my opinion.

--
René Pijlman

Wat wil jij leren? http://www.leren.nl

Wÿrm:

"If you are trying to do pixel-perfect cross-browser CSS layout

Ah, but that's the problem. web is NOT pixel perfect media now is it? We
all can have different browser canvas size, different font size, different
screen size, etc etc.. So if there's so many different variables and
possible valies for them, why even expect to get anything "pixel perfect"?

This is true, but the IE5 bugs are somewhat more serious than a deviating
pixel here and there.

One can't cater everyone no mater if use table or CSS for design for me,
about 4% of IE 5 share is most cases acceptable "loss" like NS 4 (with what,
1% share) in way that in their browsers content is there and alll, just
might not be same layout as for others.

Agreed. Fortunately, IE5 is quickly becoming obsolete and IE6/FF1 is a
fairly stable platform with reasonable cross-browser and standard
compliant CSS-support (AFAIK).

Still, no offence, this is just my opinion.

None taken :-)

--
René Pijlman

Wat wil jij leren? http://www.leren.nl

"Rene Pijlman" <reply.in.the.newsgroup (AT) my (DOT) address.is.invalid> wrote in
message news:dgp0s0tifeohf0tsvuevjibl1r792iksb7 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

<snip>

This is true, but the IE5 bugs are somewhat more serious than a
deviating
pixel here and there.

Gonna look into that when I have time to re-install stuffs in my one old
pc and get IE 5 there I know there's ways to install multiple IE's on
one box, but I like to keep things simple and clean for myself

Do you have any example where there's big differences?

I almost "always" nest boxes (usually only 2 box deep if needed at all)
cause of IE box-model bugs, and even for IE 6 it helps to defeat
3pixeljog (set height to say 1% for some extra container) etc. so.. And I
know tantek hack that's used many cases, to hide stuff etc..

But anything other, simple and concrete to look at? Sorry that I ask
this much, heh, but I am curious because I always try to learn more and
find ways to overcome some problems

Wÿrm wrote:

Rene Pijlman wrote...

"If you are trying to do pixel-perfect cross-browser CSS layout

Ah, but that's the problem. web is NOT pixel perfect media now is it?

That's because of a poor technology choice. It's like saying "can
I fly by using a sailboat?" The answer is that you have two choices;
keep the boat and get there by sailing or get a plane and get there
by flying. If you want a pixel-perfect cross-browser CSS layout, you
have two choices; use CSS and HTML and forget about being pixel-perfect
or use the technology that *does* give you pixel-perfect cross-browser
results: Adobe Acrobat.

"Guy Macon" <_see.web.page_ (AT) _www (DOT) guymacon.com_> wrote


<snip>

or use the technology that *does* give you pixel-perfect cross-browser
results: Adobe Acrobat.

But that is not really a "good"/proper WEB format. Atleast if you are
aiming for searchengines too that is And hoping it to work without
plugins... Acrobat's like a flash, both have their uses but most cases
they are not good choice