reading on bruce clay site?

I am curious after reading bruce clay and one of his comments about google.
He stated that if you used text inside divs, layers,css google may not
spider your site. Has anyone found this to be true? Thanks in advance for
your help.

"Articus" <abstractpaintings (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

I am curious after reading bruce clay and one of his comments about
google.
He stated that if you used text inside divs, layers,css google may not
spider your site. Has anyone found this to be true? Thanks in advance
for
your help.

Bruce clay is one of the best in this business. Not always right, but
generally spot on.

I cannot speak for him but I think his research has indicated that Google
considers this sort of thing SPAM and will try to guard against it.
He also still recommends comments tags but I am not sure why since I have
sites that do great without them. I need to find out on that one.

--
James Taylor
http://www.AICompany.com
http://www.SEO-highrankings.com

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:25:11 GMT, "James"
<james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:

"Articus" <abstractpaintings (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Pe0Lb.212502$b01.4631838 (AT) twister (DOT) tampabay.rr.com...
I am curious after reading bruce clay and one of his comments about
google.
He stated that if you used text inside divs, layers,css google may not
spider your site. Has anyone found this to be true? Thanks in advance
for
your help.


Bruce clay is one of the best in this business. Not always right, but
generally spot on.

I cannot speak for him but I think his research has indicated that Google
considers this sort of thing SPAM and will try to guard against it.
He also still recommends comments tags but I am not sure why since I have
sites that do great without them. I need to find out on that one.

Comment tags are ignored by google. Very easy to test.

David replace SP@AM with @ to email me direct.
_
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/ Free
SEO Tips (01/01/2004)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123.../seo-help.html
hire SEO Dave
http://www.bdsm-lingerie.com Sexy Lingerie and BDSM Products Shop

"SEO Dave" <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:25:11 GMT, "James"
james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:

"Articus" <abstractpaintings (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Pe0Lb.212502$b01.4631838 (AT) twister (DOT) tampabay.rr.com...
I am curious after reading bruce clay and one of his comments about
google.
He stated that if you used text inside divs, layers,css google may not
spider your site. Has anyone found this to be true? Thanks in advance
for
your help.


Bruce clay is one of the best in this business. Not always right, but
generally spot on.

I cannot speak for him but I think his research has indicated that Google
considers this sort of thing SPAM and will try to guard against it.
He also still recommends comments tags but I am not sure why since I have
sites that do great without them. I need to find out on that one.

Comment tags are ignored by google. Very easy to test.

David replace SP@AM with @ to email me direct.
_
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/ Free
SEO Tips (01/01/2004)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123.../seo-help.html
hire SEO Dave
http://www.bdsm-lingerie.com Sexy Lingerie and BDSM Products Shop

How would you test it Dave?

--
James Taylor
http://www.AICompany.com
http://www.SEO-highrankings.com

"Articus" <abstractpaintings (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in
news:Pe0Lb.212502$b01.4631838 (AT) twister (DOT) tampabay.rr.com:

I am curious after reading bruce clay and one of his comments about
google. He stated that if you used text inside divs, layers,css google
may not spider your site. Has anyone found this to be true? Thanks
in advance for your help.

If he says what you quote him as saying, it's nonsense.

However, my suspicion is that you may have read a section that is actually
talking about div layers that are formatted using display: none or
visibility: hidden, or that are absolutely positioned outside the viewable
page area with css.

I've not experimented with these approaches on pages that are main SEO
target pages. But I would not be surprised to find that Google didn't
always spider links hidden using some of these techniques.

If the css hiding commands were embedded in the HTMl rather than being in a
separate stylesheet document, and formatted relatively simply, it would be
as easy to spot as, say, 'hidden' same colour text and background, for
example.

Victoria
--
Clare Associates Ltd
http://www.clareassoc.co.uk/
01822 835802
--

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:36:28 GMT, "James"
<james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:

How would you test it Dave?

Hi,

You either find a comment tag with unique text in it (unique to the
page and not used as anchor text of links pointing to the page) or you
add a unique comment tag to one of your pages and give it 6 weeks to
be indexed.

Then you search for the unique text in speech marks "unique text". If
the page is found it suggests the text is counted, if it isn't it
suggests it isn't counted towards your rankings. Do enough of these
searches to make the results statistically relevant and you have your
answer.

In practice it makes sense to pick unique text that's not only unique
to the page, but rarely used in that combination on other sites. This
way you should only see a small number of results during a Google
search.

Looking at your main aicompany home page we have this-

<!--this web site is designed to assist those looking for web site
design, web site hosting and search engine optimization services in
los angeles california, buena park, california and whittier california
-->

Here's a unique piece of text that's unlikely to be found on other
sites in that exact order-

"park, california and whittier" google shows no pages found

You can also do more complex searches when a unique piece of text to a
page isn't unique to the internet like-

"services in los angeles" google shows thousands of pages, but add the
domain name (minus the www and com) AICompany and-

"services in los angeles" AICompany google shows no pages found

You can confirm the domain name does count so the above is a valid
result by doing a search like-

"piece of body text" domainname

i.e.-

"internet marketing" AICompany shows your domain as the number one
and if you look at all results from that domain you'll find the home
page.

Pretty clear to me the words within that comment tag is not helping
the page at all.

BTW you know the title attribute (like this one you use- title="free
seo tutorial") also doesn't count towards a SERP?

Same with the alt text you have used.

Actually there is a lot you could do to improve the home page, none of
this alt text is counted for example-

<td>
<img src="images/top1.jpg" width="227" height="225" alt="build
your business through los angeles web design, web hosting and search
engine marketing"><img src="images/top2.jpg" width="202" height="225"
alt="los angeles california web design, web hosting and search engine
optimization"><img src="images/top3.jpg" width="271"
height="225"></td>

Nor this

<td width="84%">
<img src="images/bottom1.jpg" width="227" height="207" border="0"
usemap="#Map" alt="seo, web design, web hosting in los angeles
california"><img src="images/bottom2.jpg" width="310"
height="207"><img src="images/bottom3.jpg" width="163"
height="207"></td>

nor this

<area shape="rect" coords="38,73,91,91" href="home.htm" target="_self"
alt="Click to view AICompany.com web page design Homepage...">

In fact all google counts is-

Your title-

A whittier web page design firm offering search engine optimization,
high speed reliable web hosting, mobile and wireless application
development

And this body text-

internet marketing | web hosting | web design | seo company search
engine optimization | network implementation and management |
resources | Free SEO Tutorial

You could do much, much better with some quite basic changes without
changing the look or feel of the page.

David replace SP@AM with @ to email me direct.
_
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/ Free
SEO Tips (01/01/2004)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123.../seo-help.html
hire SEO Dave
http://www.bdsm-lingerie.com Sexy Lingerie and BDSM Products Shop

"SEO Dave" <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:36:28 GMT, "James"
james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:

How would you test it Dave?

Hi,

You either find a comment tag with unique text in it (unique to the
page and not used as anchor text of links pointing to the page) or you
add a unique comment tag to one of your pages and give it 6 weeks to
be indexed.

Then you search for the unique text in speech marks "unique text". If
the page is found it suggests the text is counted, if it isn't it
suggests it isn't counted towards your rankings. Do enough of these
searches to make the results statistically relevant and you have your
answer.

In practice it makes sense to pick unique text that's not only unique
to the page, but rarely used in that combination on other sites. This
way you should only see a small number of results during a Google
search.

Looking at your main aicompany home page we have this-

!--this web site is designed to assist those looking for web site
design, web site hosting and search engine optimization services in
los angeles california, buena park, california and whittier california
--

Here's a unique piece of text that's unlikely to be found on other
sites in that exact order-

"park, california and whittier" google shows no pages found

You can also do more complex searches when a unique piece of text to a
page isn't unique to the internet like-

"services in los angeles" google shows thousands of pages, but add the
domain name (minus the www and com) AICompany and-

"services in los angeles" AICompany google shows no pages found

You can confirm the domain name does count so the above is a valid
result by doing a search like-

"piece of body text" domainname

i.e.-

"internet marketing" AICompany shows your domain as the number one
and if you look at all results from that domain you'll find the home
page.

Pretty clear to me the words within that comment tag is not helping
the page at all.

Thanks, this explains it very clearly.

BTW you know the title attribute (like this one you use- title="free
seo tutorial") also doesn't count towards a SERP?

No, I didn't know that. SEO-Guy still uses it and I thought I would try it
out since I haven't used that B4.
I am testing it now.

Same with the alt text you have used.

Are you saying the ALT text no longer matters?

Actually there is a lot you could do to improve the home page, none of
this alt text is counted for example-

td
img src="images/top1.jpg" width="227" height="225" alt="build
your business through los angeles web design, web hosting and search
engine marketing"><img src="images/top2.jpg" width="202" height="225"
alt="los angeles california web design, web hosting and search engine
optimization"><img src="images/top3.jpg" width="271"
height="225"></td

Nor this

td width="84%"
img src="images/bottom1.jpg" width="227" height="207" border="0"
usemap="#Map" alt="seo, web design, web hosting in los angeles
california"><img src="images/bottom2.jpg" width="310"
height="207"><img src="images/bottom3.jpg" width="163"
height="207"></td

nor this

area shape="rect" coords="38,73,91,91" href="home.htm" target="_self"
alt="Click to view AICompany.com web page design Homepage..."

In fact all google counts is-

Your title-

A whittier web page design firm offering search engine optimization,
high speed reliable web hosting, mobile and wireless application
development

And this body text-

internet marketing | web hosting | web design | seo company search
engine optimization | network implementation and management |
resources | Free SEO Tutorial

You could do much, much better with some quite basic changes without
changing the look or feel of the page.

How would you add text to this site without changing the look?

Would you use the noembed tag?
Are you saying that by removing the ALT tags, I would move the content
(provided I had a bit more) up closer to teh top of the page?
I already rank #1 for whittier web design and "whittier web hosting" but I
could use more SERPS in the Los Angeles area.

I guess I could float the text in the uipper right ove rth eimage with CSS
to get a bit more on-page elements going.

David replace SP@AM with @ to email me direct.
_
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/ Free
SEO Tips (01/01/2004)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123.../seo-help.html
hire SEO Dave
http://www.bdsm-lingerie.com Sexy Lingerie and BDSM Products Shop

--
James Taylor
http://www.AICompany.com
http://www.SEO-highrankings.com

"SEO Dave" <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:9ktqvvkcediv8pr4vkmherag5thkmh9qmc (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:36:28 GMT, "James"
james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:
SNIP

BTW you know the title attribute (like this one you use- title="free
seo tutorial") also doesn't count towards a SERP?

No, I didn't know that. SEO-Guy still uses it and I thought I would try
it
out since I haven't used that B4.
I am testing it now.
I mis-understood SEO-Guy. In fact he has tested this out already and found

the same conclusion you did Dave, it doesn't help.

Thanks for clearing that up!


--
James Taylor
http://www.AICompany.com
http://www.SEO-highrankings.com

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:37:31 GMT, "James"
<james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:

Are you saying that by removing the ALT tags, I would move the content
(provided I had a bit more) up closer to teh top of the page?
I already rank #1 for whittier web design and "whittier web hosting" but I
could use more SERPS in the Los Angeles area.

Hi,

The alt attributes you have now do not help the page at all. Do a
similar test as I described to see if comment tags help on your alt
text and you'll see what I mean.

You can make alt text count by adding it to a image link. So you could
change this-

<td width="84%">
<img src="images/bottom1.jpg" width="227" height="207" border="0"
usemap="#Map" alt="seo, web design, web hosting in los angeles
california">

To this-
<td width="84%">
<a href="page.html"><img src="images/bottom1.jpg" width="227"
height="207" border="0" usemap="#Map" alt="seo, web design, web
hosting in los angeles california"></a>

Alt text of an image links acts the same way as anchor text. So it not
only helps the page it links to but the page it is on.

So you don't need any types of tricks etc... to make a page relevant,
just the right coding and the right text.

David replace SP@AM with @ to email me direct.
_
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/ Free
SEO Tips (01/01/2004)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123.../seo-help.html
hire SEO Dave
http://www.bdsm-lingerie.com Sexy Lingerie and BDSM Products Shop

"SEO Dave" <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:37:31 GMT, "James"
james.taylor (AT) aicNOomSPpaAMny (DOT) com> wrote:

Are you saying that by removing the ALT tags, I would move the content
(provided I had a bit more) up closer to teh top of the page?
I already rank #1 for whittier web design and "whittier web hosting" but
I
could use more SERPS in the Los Angeles area.

Hi,

The alt attributes you have now do not help the page at all. Do a
similar test as I described to see if comment tags help on your alt
text and you'll see what I mean.

You can make alt text count by adding it to a image link. So you could
change this-

td width="84%"
img src="images/bottom1.jpg" width="227" height="207" border="0"
usemap="#Map" alt="seo, web design, web hosting in los angeles
california"

To this-
td width="84%"
a href="page.html"><img src="images/bottom1.jpg" width="227"
height="207" border="0" usemap="#Map" alt="seo, web design, web
hosting in los angeles california"></a

Alt text of an image links acts the same way as anchor text. So it not
only helps the page it links to but the page it is on.

So you don't need any types of tricks etc... to make a page relevant,
just the right coding and the right text.

David replace SP@AM with @ to email me direct.
_
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/ Free
SEO Tips (01/01/2004)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123.../seo-help.html
hire SEO Dave
http://www.bdsm-lingerie.com Sexy Lingerie and BDSM Products Shop

Got it.

Thanks Dave.


James