Re: Fixing Dirt Filthy Front Page Code

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:52:57 GMT, "Steve Horrillo"
<usenet (AT) stephenhorrillo (DOT) com> wrote:

Al the website's in my sig were designed with Front Page. When I use Front
Pages error check it's showing me dozens of errors. I'm not blaming FP being
that I did a lot of moving things around and changing fonts. But please take
a look at the source for say, www.brokeragenttraing.com or
www.over100percent.com. It amazes me it even works. The extra tags are just
over the top! Is there any quick way to clean up this awful code? I remember
Jimco had some utilities for that but will it work on a mess like I have?

Is there an html editor that makes it easy to edit FrontPage code?

I been following this thread because I too use FrontPage for some
sites. (Let's not get into the merits or demerits of FrontPage.
Suffice to say it does have some strengths. And I agree with the
orignial poster that this question sets off flame wars in FP and nonFP
newsgroups.)

At any rate I create a page in FrontPage and use it as a template for
other pages. So I need to hand code chagnes to the page. The way
FrontPage builds its code is bizarre to say the least.

It would really help if I could run an html file created by FrontPage
through some sort of editor that would "oranize" the could in a more
meaningful way.

For example, here is actual FP code:

</td></tr><!--msnavigation--></table><!--msnavigation--><table
dir="ltr" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tr><td valign="top" width="1%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="141"
id="Home_Mortgages_101" style="border-collapse: collapse"
bordercolor="#111111">

It would be much easier to debug if it looked like this

</td>
</tr>
<!--msnavigation--></table>
<!--msnavigation-->
<table dir="ltr" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%">
<tr>
<td valign="top" width="1%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="141"
id="Home_Mortgages_101" style="border-collapse: collapse"
bordercolor="#111111">

Or something similar.

Is there an automated way of taking the first example above and
turning it into the second example?

Thanks. And sorry if this is OT.
Best regards,

Al
http://www.affordablefloridainsurance.com
http://www.americanbestmortgages.com
http://www.americanaffordablelifeinsurance.com

AF wrote:

Is there an html editor that makes it easy to edit FrontPage code?

I been following this thread because I too use FrontPage for some
sites.

I must confess to being an FP user because it is convenient for
organising middle size websites in terms of linking and structure. I run
a Perl script that, amongst other things, removes all of the table
driven formatting replacing it with styles from an external CSS file.

----------------------
http://www.abcseo.com/

"davidof" <david.george (AT) g-dumpthisbit-mail (DOT) com> wrote

AF wrote:
Is there an html editor that makes it easy to edit FrontPage code?

I been following this thread because I too use FrontPage for some
sites.

I must confess to being an FP user because it is convenient for organising
middle size websites in terms of linking and structure.

That and it is quicker to upload to the server, plus you can check for
broken links, change file names and it will change it on all the pages you
have it on. An FTP takes to much time to upload.:-)

Stacey

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:16:18 GMT, AF <bscinc3000 (AT) Yahoo_NoSpam (DOT) com>
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:52:57 GMT, "Steve Horrillo"
usenet (AT) stephenhorrillo (DOT) com> wrote:

Al the website's in my sig were designed with Front Page. When I use Front
Pages error check it's showing me dozens of errors. I'm not blaming FP being
that I did a lot of moving things around and changing fonts. But please take
a look at the source for say, www.brokeragenttraing.com or
www.over100percent.com. It amazes me it even works. The extra tags are just
over the top! Is there any quick way to clean up this awful code? I remember
Jimco had some utilities for that but will it work on a mess like I have?

Is there an html editor that makes it easy to edit FrontPage code?

I been following this thread because I too use FrontPage for some
sites. (Let's not get into the merits or demerits of FrontPage.
Suffice to say it does have some strengths. And I agree with the
orignial poster that this question sets off flame wars in FP and nonFP
newsgroups.)

At any rate I create a page in FrontPage and use it as a template for
other pages. So I need to hand code chagnes to the page. The way
FrontPage builds its code is bizarre to say the least.

It would really help if I could run an html file created by FrontPage
through some sort of editor that would "oranize" the could in a more
meaningful way.

For example, here is actual FP code:

/td></tr><!--msnavigation--></table><!--msnavigation--><table
dir="ltr" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tr><td valign="top" width="1%"
table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="141"
id="Home_Mortgages_101" style="border-collapse: collapse"
bordercolor="#111111"

It would be much easier to debug if it looked like this

/td
/tr
!--msnavigation--></table
!--msnavigation--
table dir="ltr" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"
tr
td valign="top" width="1%"
table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="141"
id="Home_Mortgages_101" style="border-collapse: collapse"
bordercolor="#111111"

Or something similar.

Is there an automated way of taking the first example above and
turning it into the second example?

Thanks. And sorry if this is OT.
Best regards,

Al
http://www.affordablefloridainsurance.com
http://www.americanbestmortgages.com
http://www.americanaffordablelifeinsurance.com

Try using the "beautify" feature in arachnophilia.
Or, try the TIDY feature in HTML KIT.

I don't say they'll do it but they offer the kind of sorting the code
out facility that you need. Obviously results will vary accrding to
the code and what each interpreter thinks it was trying to actually
order.

BB

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
seo that watches the river flow...
--

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 16:19:05 +0200, davidof
<david.george (AT) g-dumpthisbit-mail (DOT) com> wrote:

AF wrote:
Is there an html editor that makes it easy to edit FrontPage code?

I been following this thread because I too use FrontPage for some
sites.

I must confess to being an FP user because it is convenient for
organising middle size websites in terms of linking and structure. I run
a Perl script that, amongst other things, removes all of the table
driven formatting replacing it with styles from an external CSS file.

----------------------
http://www.abcseo.com/

David,

You wrote "removes all of the table driven formatting replacing it
with styles from an external CSS file." I understand about running a
script to reformat hml code. I started doing sort of the same thing
with wome VisualFoxpro code. I use VFP because I coded for a long
time in FoxPro, and I can rely on that experience.

I am not sure I follow you why you are removing "table driven
formatting". I would love to hear more about why you are doing it.
Here is what I have been doing with css. Is this achieving the same
effect?

I created an external css file "main.css". I put this code into a
file's <head>:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="library_files/main.css">

I am not a FrontPage expert by any means, and I have not found an easy
way to get the above line into a FrontPage generated web page unless
you do one of two things:

1. either use the FrontPage html view and manually insert this line
into the <head> section or

2. do not create a new page, instead copy/paste an existing file and
then work with it.

Interesting you can then use the styles inside a page. If you edit
the main.css file, it will come up in Notepad, and yo can make manual
changes.

Once you get the hang of this method, it goes pretty quick.

How do you implement the css styles? I am always looking for
shortcuts and ways to save steps.
Best regards,

Al
http://www.affordablefloridainsurance.com
http://www.americanbestmortgages.com
http://www.americanaffordablelifeinsurance.com

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:34:28 GMT, Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk>
wrote:
snip

Try using the "beautify" feature in arachnophilia.
Or, try the TIDY feature in HTML KIT.

I don't say they'll do it but they offer the kind of sorting the code
out facility that you need. Obviously results will vary accrding to
the code and what each interpreter thinks it was trying to actually
order.

BB

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
seo that watches the river flow...

Thanks for the tip on arachnophilia.

I just downloaded it and try it briefly.

It looks like exactly what I need. Plus it does php files and css
files, both of which I am just getting into.

Now if could only teach me how to design a beatiful site in about 10
minutes, I'd be set.

Thanks again for the great advice.
Best regards,

Al
http://www.affordablefloridainsurance.com
http://www.americanbestmortgages.com
http://www.americanaffordablelifeinsurance.com

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 16:25:01 GMT, AF <bscinc3000 (AT) Yahoo_NoSpam (DOT) com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:34:28 GMT, Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk
wrote:
snip

Try using the "beautify" feature in arachnophilia.
Or, try the TIDY feature in HTML KIT.

I don't say they'll do it but they offer the kind of sorting the code
out facility that you need. Obviously results will vary accrding to
the code and what each interpreter thinks it was trying to actually
order.

BB

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
seo that watches the river flow...

Thanks for the tip on arachnophilia.

I just downloaded it and try it briefly.

It looks like exactly what I need. Plus it does php files and css
files, both of which I am just getting into.

Now if could only teach me how to design a beatiful site in about 10
minutes, I'd be set.

Thanks again for the great advice.
Best regards,

Al
http://www.affordablefloridainsurance.com
http://www.americanbestmortgages.com
http://www.americanaffordablelifeinsurance.com

Al, try TSLite for the CSS, everyone likes it.

http://www.bradsoft.com/index.asp

BB

--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
seo that watches the river flow...
--

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:18:00 +0200, AF <bscinc3000 (AT) Yahoo_NoSpam (DOT) com> wrote:

I am not sure I follow you why you are removing "table driven
formatting". I would love to hear more about why you are doing it.

I think it is deprecated.

Best,
Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com - chemical calculators for labs and education
BATE - program for pH calculations
CASC - Concentration and Solution Calculator
pH lectures - guide to hand pH calculation with examples

Borek wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:18:00 +0200, AF <bscinc3000 (AT) Yahoo_NoSpam (DOT) com> wrote:

I am not sure I follow you why you are removing "table driven
formatting". I would love to hear more about why you are doing it.


I think it is deprecated.

I don't know about that but I've not looked at a W3C spec since sometime
around 1996 but tables were never meant for formatting pages (I guess
that is much the same thing?), of course we had to use tables at one
time to do that as there was no viable alternative.

I also think bloated HTML is a bad thing. Lucky most of the MS FP stuff
is tagged so easy to clean up.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:06:06 +0200, davidof
<david.george (AT) g-dumpthisbit-mail (DOT) com> wrote:

I don't know about that but I've not looked at a W3C spec since sometime
around 1996 but tables were never meant for formatting pages (I guess
that is much the same thing?), of course we had to use tables at one
time to do that as there was no viable alternative.

I believe there was a short period when tables were suggested as
a way of formatting - but most of my knowledge on the subject is
second hand, so I can be wrong.

Best,
Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com - chemical calculators for labs and education
BATE - program for pH calculations
CASC - Concentration and Solution Calculator
pH lectures - guide to hand pH calculation with examples