page rank through linking

As far as I understand the system: if you link to a website which
doesn't link back to you, you give away some of your rank, if you link
to a website that _does_ link to you then both sites gain rank

In my situation, I have a medium ranked website and I have an
opportunity to link it to a high ranked website (one of MTV's sites)
and they have a link back to mine. Problem is their site and the link
back to me is in flash so it probably won't be indexed by anything.
Seems like I'm loosing a great opportunity to boost my site's rank.

So, should I link to this site? Should I use rel="nofollow" in the
link? And does this system work essentially the same way for other
(not Google) search engines (that are not indexed by people)

- Dima

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:23:45 +0100, Dima Gofman <dg (AT) cfa-solutions (DOT) com>
wrote:

As far as I understand the system: if you link to a website which
doesn't link back to you, you give away some of your rank, if you link
to a website that _does_ link to you then both sites gain rank

So you understand it wrong. That's very common misconception.
While you can preserve some of PR linking to your other pages
instead of linking outside, if you link to outside related pages
you gain more in terms of SERPS then you are loosing in terms of PR.

In my situation, I have a medium ranked website and I have an
opportunity to link it to a high ranked website (one of MTV's sites)
and they have a link back to mine. Problem is their site and the link
back to me is in flash so it probably won't be indexed by anything.
Seems like I'm loosing a great opportunity to boost my site's rank.

Go for it. If the site linking to you is related your SERPs should go
up, and the flash link will get visitors on its own, regardless of
whether it helps your position in Google or not.

So, should I link to this site? Should I use rel="nofollow" in the
link? And does this system work essentially the same way for other
(not Google) search engines (that are not indexed by people)

Yes. No. Probably no.

Best,
Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=EBAS&...-stoichiometry
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=BATE&...ion_equilibria
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=CASC&...n_calcul ator

"Dima Gofman" <dg (AT) cfa-solutions (DOT) com> wrote

As far as I understand the system: if you link to a website which
doesn't link back to you, you give away some of your rank, if you link
to a website that _does_ link to you then both sites gain rank

I believe that is a misconception, you can't loose PR by linking to other
pages.

In my situation, I have a medium ranked website and I have an
opportunity to link it to a high ranked website (one of MTV's sites)
and they have a link back to mine. Problem is their site and the link
back to me is in flash so it probably won't be indexed by anything.
Seems like I'm loosing a great opportunity to boost my site's rank.

Well that is true you won't get any PR from the page but you might get a lot
of quality traffic if the link is on a page with relevant topic to your
site.

So, should I link to this site? Should I use rel="nofollow" in the
link? And does this system work essentially the same way for other
(not Google) search engines (that are not indexed by people)

Well that is a decision you have to make! Do you have some sort of
partnership? Does linking to that site make you loose some possible 'sales'
or important visitors? Putting a nofollow is informing SEs not to follow the
link which means you are not helping in the PR of that site. I say try to
put the link and see if it is hurting you.

--
SEO forum: http://www.webmaster-corner.com

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:32:06 +0200, "Maro" <maro (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

"Dima Gofman" <dg (AT) cfa-solutions (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1133263425.217083.86100 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com...
As far as I understand the system: if you link to a website which
doesn't link back to you, you give away some of your rank, if you link
to a website that _does_ link to you then both sites gain rank

I believe that is a misconception, you can't loose PR by linking to other
pages.

Then you don't understand how PR works.

Later you contradict the above with this-

Putting a nofollow is informing SEs not to follow the
link which means you are not helping in the PR of that site.

If adding rel="nofollow" means "you are not helping in the PR of that
site" is that not the same as saying if you add a link to a page
(without using nofollow) you ARE passing/transferring/creates
(whatever way you want to describe the process) PR to the page?

If you are meaning this where does the PR come from that the page
receives?

And if it's not from the page that linked to it, does that mean you
can link to say 100 external pages on every page you own and your
sites PR won't go down?

If this is what you mean you can create almost unlimited PR10 sites
just by buying loads of domains and linking them in the right way from
one reasonable PR page. This makes no sense at all.

PR leaks from a site via external links, it's a mathematical fact.

David
--
Free Search Engine Optimization Tutorial
http://www.seo-gold.com/tutorial/

"David" <seodave (AT) search-engine-optimization-services (DOT) co.uk> wrote

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:32:06 +0200, "Maro" <maro (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:


"Dima Gofman" <dg (AT) cfa-solutions (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1133263425.217083.86100 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com...
As far as I understand the system: if you link to a website which
doesn't link back to you, you give away some of your rank, if you link
to a website that _does_ link to you then both sites gain rank

I believe that is a misconception, you can't loose PR by linking to other
pages.

Then you don't understand how PR works.

Later you contradict the above with this-

Putting a nofollow is informing SEs not to follow the
link which means you are not helping in the PR of that site.

If adding rel="nofollow" means "you are not helping in the PR of that
site" is that not the same as saying if you add a link to a page
(without using nofollow) you ARE passing/transferring/creates
(whatever way you want to describe the process) PR to the page?

If you are meaning this where does the PR come from that the page
receives?

And if it's not from the page that linked to it, does that mean you
can link to say 100 external pages on every page you own and your
sites PR won't go down?

If this is what you mean you can create almost unlimited PR10 sites
just by buying loads of domains and linking them in the right way from
one reasonable PR page. This makes no sense at all.

PR leaks from a site via external links, it's a mathematical fact.

David
--
Free Search Engine Optimization Tutorial
http://www.seo-gold.com/tutorial/

I agree, PR definitely leaks from a site with external links. The more
links out, the more the site PR leakage. Note the use of the word "site",
not "page".

A web site comprising just one page is the exception; the PR of the page
will depend on incoming links only. The number of outgoing links being
irrelevent, unless they lead to spam sites, in which case the page PR may be
penalised to zero.

Best regards, Eric.

"David" <seodave (AT) search-engine-optimization-services (DOT) co.uk> wrote

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:32:06 +0200, "Maro" <maro (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

<snip>

PR leaks from a site via external links, it's a mathematical fact.

Yep pretty simple concept really. If one agrees that 10 outgoing links on a
page gives more PR to an outgoing link that 100 links per page then that is
where the concept of leaking begins. The one page with less links linking
back through the flow of the site will give less PR to each page with more
links on it. A mathematical fact.:-)

Stacey

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:29:08 +0100, "Stacey"
<Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

"David" <seodave (AT) search-engine-optimization-services (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message
news:hlopo1dsi97if40uu5kdq7ht5kivaqmvj6 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:32:06 +0200, "Maro" <maro (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

snip


PR leaks from a site via external links, it's a mathematical fact.

Yep pretty simple concept really. If one agrees that 10 outgoing links on a
page gives more PR to an outgoing link that 100 links per page then that is
where the concept of leaking begins. The one page with less links linking
back through the flow of the site will give less PR to each page with more
links on it. A mathematical fact.:-)

Stacey

When Obi Ben said "Use the force, Luke", you'll maybe remember he
didn't say, "Use the logarithms, Luke" or similar?
The mathematicians among us jest lurvs the idea that what's out there,
the big old all of it, can be neatly summed up with a slide rule and a
calculator.
Perchance to dream, aye, there's the rub.
I don't worry about leaking page rank myself.

BB

--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
The buffalo have gone

"Big Bill" <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:29:08 +0100, "Stacey"
Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

"David" <seodave (AT) search-engine-optimization-services (DOT) co.uk> wrote in
message
news:hlopo1dsi97if40uu5kdq7ht5kivaqmvj6 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:32:06 +0200, "Maro" <maro (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

snip


PR leaks from a site via external links, it's a mathematical fact.

Yep pretty simple concept really. If one agrees that 10 outgoing links on
a
page gives more PR to an outgoing link that 100 links per page then that
is
where the concept of leaking begins. The one page with less links linking
back through the flow of the site will give less PR to each page with more
links on it. A mathematical fact.:-)

Stacey

When Obi Ben said "Use the force, Luke", you'll maybe remember he
didn't say, "Use the logarithms, Luke" or similar?

Nope don't recall that but wasn't worried about any such force. :-) But the
old logarithm and integral doesn't matter to this. It is actually basic
math(or maths as you would call it), one doesn't need Calculus to figure it
out..:-)

The mathematicians among us jest lurvs the idea that what's out there,
the big old all of it, can be neatly summed up with a slide rule and a
calculator.

So, you are a mathmatician?? Don't know if you can say anything about if it
can be loved or not and neatly summed up on a calculator.:-)

Perchance to dream, aye, there's the rub.
I don't worry about leaking page rank myself.

Me neither but then again I have enough PR to gain the SERPs I need. And if
I need more PR I know how to get it.:-)

Stacey

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:25:39 GMT, Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk>
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:29:08 +0100, "Stacey"
Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

"David" <seodave (AT) search-engine-optimization-services (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message
news:hlopo1dsi97if40uu5kdq7ht5kivaqmvj6 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:32:06 +0200, "Maro" <maro (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

snip


PR leaks from a site via external links, it's a mathematical fact.

Yep pretty simple concept really. If one agrees that 10 outgoing links on a
page gives more PR to an outgoing link that 100 links per page then that is
where the concept of leaking begins. The one page with less links linking
back through the flow of the site will give less PR to each page with more
links on it. A mathematical fact.:-)

Stacey

When Obi Ben said "Use the force, Luke", you'll maybe remember he
didn't say, "Use the logarithms, Luke" or similar?
The mathematicians among us jest lurvs the idea that what's out there,
the big old all of it, can be neatly summed up with a slide rule and a
calculator.

So what mathematical studies do you have under your belt Bill?

I studied maths at A-level and University (part of the science
degree).

Perchance to dream, aye, there's the rub.
I don't worry about leaking page rank myself.

BB

If you are good at maths why not look at PR mathematically and see if
you can show PR doesn't leak. That's what a SEO should do in your
situation.

Interesting that your sites easy SERPs plummeted after you added a lot
of affiliate content that would include lots of external links to the
affiliates (lots of PR leaking there). So maybe you should worry,
especially as with so little PR you can't afford to waste any.

David
--
Free Search Engine Optimization Tutorial
http://www.seo-gold.com/tutorial/