My response to Florida & Google

SEO Dave wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:02:03 -0800, "RFI Admin" <rfi (AT) ruralfree (DOT) net
wrote:

http://www.rusticstone.net/

Jez.

Your page seems to be an exception to my theory. From studying
your page and the currently top ranked pages at google for the
keyword phrase 'housesigns' I'm not seeing anything to help
explain why you aren't listed.

I tend to use both plural and singular forms of keywords on pages
(especially the Lingerie site).

Just a thought: The plural form HOUSES does not appear. Also
the stemmed form SIGNAGE does not appear.

In using a stupid stemming program like Kvack, the one i
mentioned being stuck with for about a year when my isp
utilized it, one learns to write out all forms of EVERY word
in the search phrase.

house sign
house signs
signs for houses
housing signage
housed
signed
unsigned

And for the terminally retarded search engine algo, you will
also want synonyms:

plaque
plaques
home
homes
estate
estates
building
buildings
unit
units

Give this technique a try and see what happens, okay?

cat yronwode

SEO Dave <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:02:03 -0800, "RFI Admin" <rfi (AT) ruralfree (DOT) net
wrote:

http://www.rusticstone.net/

Jez.


Your page seems to be an exception to my theory. From studying your page and
the currently top ranked pages at google for the keyword phrase 'house
signs' I'm not seeing anything to help explain why you aren't listed.

Hi,

I don't think this site fits the standard florida site that lost it's
main SERPs.

If I recall correctly you went from no where before asking for advice
here (or was it directly to me by email?) to getting short term
success.

Anyway, I know I gave you some advice which you took mostly and your
sites SERPs improved after a short period of time. When Florida hit
you lost the SERPs.

So this could be 'normal' Google sort of stuff, Freshbot listings
etc...

Since your PR isn't very high it may just be a case of needing more
links.

BTW with regards the theory discussed in this thread, I haven't looked
at it fully, but if it helps your research in the first two weeks
after Florida my sites SERPs (both the one in the sig and
www.adultlingerieuk.com) improved significantly.

I tend to use both plural and singular forms of keywords on pages
(especially the Lingerie site). My Lingerie site dropped significantly
a week or two ago (SEO one holding strong), but this is possibly a
penalty/ban that will be unrelated to what others have experienced.

David
_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 16/11/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/
Free SEO Mailing List
http://www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/list?list_id=3290

Hi all

I find this thread very interesting and hopefully my situation
relates. I see SEO Dave posted also. I have read many of his comments
and appreciate his advise. I have been playing with this stemming
function for sometime. Read many forums and like the one post stated,
at times I feel I'm going in circles.

You would think that stemming would be to your advantage. Optimize a
page for a keyword (i.e. junk cars) and hopefully your rank well on
all forms of junk cars. So far this has not been my experience. It
even gets more puzzling.

I tried several expermients with the following results.

Optimize page for Junk Car only....ranked #4 on Junk Car...not ranked
for Junked cars

Optimize page for Junk Cars only..... ranked #5 on Junk Car...still
not ranked for Junked cars.

One forum said I was being too one dimensional. So on to my next
exerpiment.

Optimize page for Junk Car, Junk Cars, Junk, Car, Cars.....still
ranked well for Junk car...not ranked for Junk Cars.

By now I was going crazy....one forum said, "hey, be satisfied that
you at least got a good ranking for Junk Car" Maybe, but I have 3
websites. I wanted to have my site come up in the first 3 SERPs for
Junk Car as well as Junk Cars. Obvioulsy, there were sites being
ranked on the KW Junk Cars, so my next experiment was to try to figure
out what they were doing.

The #1 site for KW Junk Cars did not have the keyword Junk Cars at all
on their page....only in their title...that's it. However, they did
have the KW cars 11 times in the body text. So I followed suite....I
put Junk Cars in my title and put Cars 11 times in the text. I'm now
waiting to see how this one turns out in google.

The other factors like PR (I'm a 5 they are a 4), spamming issues,
link text, backlinks, etc, are all in place. After all my page rank
well on the keyword Junk Car with no problem, it is when I go plural I
can't find the key to getting ranked. If anything the sites that are
ranked well on the KW Junk Cars you would think they would not
be...but????????????????

Well guys, this has been my experience to this date when it comes to
stemming....started these experiments on Nov 22....last change was Dec
23 when I followed the Cars only as my keyword. Just so you know, Junk
Cars is not my actual keyword....but used it as my example. My KW is a
two word phrase....I'm too new to know if it is ethical or not to
mention your actual keywords. Most posts I read, they seem to use
widget or widgets as samples...well, decided to use something
different...that's all.

Any input, advise, opinion, etc, would be appreciated.

Merry Christmas to all....all I want for Christmas is to understand
stem ranking...better yet, Santa, instead of replacing my missing
tooth...just give me an S.

On 24 Dec 2003 16:42:49 -0800, SEOmix228 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com (CA) wrote:

Hi all

I find this thread very interesting and hopefully my situation
relates. I see SEO Dave posted also. I have read many of his comments
and appreciate his advise.

Hi,

Nice to know one person appreciates my advice :-))

I have been playing with this stemming
function for sometime. Read many forums and like the one post stated,
at times I feel I'm going in circles.

The problem is 90% of what you read on most forums etc... about SEO is
far from factual and it's not easy for someone who doesn't confirm
most research to know which 10% to believe. Just to complicate matters
it's got worse since Florida with speculation being touted as fact
(which is never a good thing) and so called experts disagreeing
considerably.

You would think that stemming would be to your advantage.

Everything can be an advantage if you know how to use it. Problem with
something new like this is it takes time to fine tune old SEO
techniques and a lot more time to re test what was considered fact.

As I get the time I plan to setup a lot of experiments and track them
indefinitely, set them up so some answers will be undisputable and if
Google does this again the pages will give lots of info to work with.

Optimize a
page for a keyword (i.e. junk cars) and hopefully your rank well on
all forms of junk cars. So far this has not been my experience. It
even gets more puzzling.

You are making the same mistake a lot of people make. Assuming that if
you get the on page stuff right a good SERP will follow. This isn't
always true.

I tried several expermients with the following results.

Optimize page for Junk Car only....ranked #4 on Junk Car...not ranked
for Junked cars

Optimize page for Junk Cars only..... ranked #5 on Junk Car...still
not ranked for Junked cars.

Have you tried optimising two pages, one for Junk Car the other for
Junk Cars and then cross link them using the appropriate anchor text?
Since you will link to junk cars with the anchor text Junk Cars and
vice a versa for the other page stemming will help both pages.

I've been doing this for ages since there are quite a few phrases
that's worth ranking well for both plural and singular. Sometimes I'll
find one of the pages ranks well for both phrases because I'll use the
singular and plural on both pages. Concentrating one page on the
singular and the other plural.

One forum said I was being too one dimensional. So on to my next
exerpiment.

Optimize page for Junk Car, Junk Cars, Junk, Car, Cars.....still
ranked well for Junk car...not ranked for Junk Cars.

If you are only using the one page try-

title = Junk Cars
1 x h1 = Junk Cars
1 or 2 x h2 = Junk Cars
2 or 3 x h3 = Junk Cars or Junk Car
several h4 = Junk Cars or Junk Car
several <b> = Junk Cars or Junk Car
several links with anchor text = Junk Cars or Junk Car

A page filled with the above wouldn't look right, so fill out the
above a bit, ideally with related keywords like <h4>Cheap Junk
Cars</h4> or <h4>Junk Car Sale</h4> (I have no idea if cheap or sale
are good keywords, just to show as an example).

The rest of the text should have junk cars, junk car, cars, car and
junk (ideally in this order of frequency, so Junk Cars most). I don't
worry about keyword density, if it reads OK I'll add a keyword.

If you make a page like this, preferably called junk-cars.html on the
domain junk-cars.com and every page under your control links to the
page with anchor text or alt text 'Junk Cars' there won't be much more
you can do that's on page.

Even with all the above you aren't even assured a top 500 SERP let
alone top 10, since google considers off page factors (links)
important. This is why your approach so far is a mistake, you may of
made the perfectly SEO'd page already and deleted it because though
you had the on page you didn't have the off page right. And if you
don't have off page stuff right then you are likely to fail on any
SERPs that are competitive.

Then it's up to off page factors, anchor and alt text, what do current
incoming links use, if it's Junk cars (or even Junk Car, Junk, Cars or
Car) then they will help a lot. If not try to get them changed so they
do, if you can't do the above, work on getting new links with the
above in mind (preferably from high PR pages with low number of
links). Add enough links using the right anchor/alt text and the worst
SEO'd page will improve it's SERPs.

By now I was going crazy....one forum said, "hey, be satisfied that
you at least got a good ranking for Junk Car" Maybe, but I have 3
websites. I wanted to have my site come up in the first 3 SERPs for
Junk Car as well as Junk Cars. Obvioulsy, there were sites being
ranked on the KW Junk Cars, so my next experiment was to try to figure
out what they were doing.

The #1 site for KW Junk Cars did not have the keyword Junk Cars at all
on their page....only in their title...that's it. However, they did
have the KW cars 11 times in the body text. So I followed suite....I
put Junk Cars in my title and put Cars 11 times in the text. I'm now
waiting to see how this one turns out in google.

This is the worst thing you can do since you don't know if it's on or
off page factors that got the SERP. If it's off page then you've made
the situation worse. It's most likely a combination,with one being
more than the other.

There is a quick way to make an educated guess as to if it's on or off
page factors. Look at the PR, if it's lower than the average for that
SERP then it's most likely on page or most of the incoming links have
the right anchor text. To confirm which look at the backlinks.

Look at the top ten sites for enough SERPs and you'll begin to see
quite quickly which are there for on and which are there for off page
factors.

The other factors like PR (I'm a 5 they are a 4), spamming issues,
link text, backlinks, etc, are all in place. After all my page rank
well on the keyword Junk Car with no problem, it is when I go plural I
can't find the key to getting ranked. If anything the sites that are
ranked well on the KW Junk Cars you would think they would not
be...but????????????????

Are most of your back links using the anchor text Junk Car by any
chance? Or at least not Junk Cars?

Well guys, this has been my experience to this date when it comes to
stemming....started these experiments on Nov 22....last change was Dec
23 when I followed the Cars only as my keyword. Just so you know, Junk
Cars is not my actual keyword....but used it as my example. My KW is a
two word phrase....I'm too new to know if it is ethical or not to
mention your actual keywords. Most posts I read, they seem to use
widget or widgets as samples...well, decided to use something
different...that's all.

I've never seen anyone complain at posters listing their keywords or
sites in general. I tend to post my as examples to help illustrate a
point.

Any input, advise, opinion, etc, would be appreciated.

Merry Christmas to all....all I want for Christmas is to understand
stem ranking...better yet, Santa, instead of replacing my missing
tooth...just give me an S.

LOL.

Have a good Christmas Day.

David
_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 16/11/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/
Free SEO Mailing List
http://www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/list?list_id=3290

SEO Dave <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

On 24 Dec 2003 16:42:49 -0800, SEOmix228 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com (CA) wrote:

Hi all

I find this thread very interesting and hopefully my situation
relates. I see SEO Dave posted also. I have read many of his comments
and appreciate his advise.

Hi,

Nice to know one person appreciates my advice :-))

I have been playing with this stemming
function for sometime. Read many forums and like the one post stated,
at times I feel I'm going in circles.

The problem is 90% of what you read on most forums etc... about SEO is
far from factual and it's not easy for someone who doesn't confirm
most research to know which 10% to believe. Just to complicate matters
it's got worse since Florida with speculation being touted as fact
(which is never a good thing) and so called experts disagreeing
considerably.

You would think that stemming would be to your advantage.

Everything can be an advantage if you know how to use it. Problem with
something new like this is it takes time to fine tune old SEO
techniques and a lot more time to re test what was considered fact.

As I get the time I plan to setup a lot of experiments and track them
indefinitely, set them up so some answers will be undisputable and if
Google does this again the pages will give lots of info to work with.

Optimize a
page for a keyword (i.e. junk cars) and hopefully your rank well on
all forms of junk cars. So far this has not been my experience. It
even gets more puzzling.

You are making the same mistake a lot of people make. Assuming that if
you get the on page stuff right a good SERP will follow. This isn't
always true.

I tried several expermients with the following results.

Optimize page for Junk Car only....ranked #4 on Junk Car...not ranked
for Junked cars

Optimize page for Junk Cars only..... ranked #5 on Junk Car...still
not ranked for Junked cars.

Have you tried optimising two pages, one for Junk Car the other for
Junk Cars and then cross link them using the appropriate anchor text?
Since you will link to junk cars with the anchor text Junk Cars and
vice a versa for the other page stemming will help both pages.

I've been doing this for ages since there are quite a few phrases
that's worth ranking well for both plural and singular. Sometimes I'll
find one of the pages ranks well for both phrases because I'll use the
singular and plural on both pages. Concentrating one page on the
singular and the other plural.

One forum said I was being too one dimensional. So on to my next
exerpiment.

Optimize page for Junk Car, Junk Cars, Junk, Car, Cars.....still
ranked well for Junk car...not ranked for Junk Cars.

If you are only using the one page try-

title = Junk Cars
1 x h1 = Junk Cars
1 or 2 x h2 = Junk Cars
2 or 3 x h3 = Junk Cars or Junk Car
several h4 = Junk Cars or Junk Car
several <b> = Junk Cars or Junk Car
several links with anchor text = Junk Cars or Junk Car

A page filled with the above wouldn't look right, so fill out the
above a bit, ideally with related keywords like <h4>Cheap Junk
Cars</h4> or <h4>Junk Car Sale</h4> (I have no idea if cheap or sale
are good keywords, just to show as an example).

The rest of the text should have junk cars, junk car, cars, car and
junk (ideally in this order of frequency, so Junk Cars most). I don't
worry about keyword density, if it reads OK I'll add a keyword.

If you make a page like this, preferably called junk-cars.html on the
domain junk-cars.com and every page under your control links to the
page with anchor text or alt text 'Junk Cars' there won't be much more
you can do that's on page.

Even with all the above you aren't even assured a top 500 SERP let
alone top 10, since google considers off page factors (links)
important. This is why your approach so far is a mistake, you may of
made the perfectly SEO'd page already and deleted it because though
you had the on page you didn't have the off page right. And if you
don't have off page stuff right then you are likely to fail on any
SERPs that are competitive.

Then it's up to off page factors, anchor and alt text, what do current
incoming links use, if it's Junk cars (or even Junk Car, Junk, Cars or
Car) then they will help a lot. If not try to get them changed so they
do, if you can't do the above, work on getting new links with the
above in mind (preferably from high PR pages with low number of
links). Add enough links using the right anchor/alt text and the worst
SEO'd page will improve it's SERPs.

By now I was going crazy....one forum said, "hey, be satisfied that
you at least got a good ranking for Junk Car" Maybe, but I have 3
websites. I wanted to have my site come up in the first 3 SERPs for
Junk Car as well as Junk Cars. Obvioulsy, there were sites being
ranked on the KW Junk Cars, so my next experiment was to try to figure
out what they were doing.

The #1 site for KW Junk Cars did not have the keyword Junk Cars at all
on their page....only in their title...that's it. However, they did
have the KW cars 11 times in the body text. So I followed suite....I
put Junk Cars in my title and put Cars 11 times in the text. I'm now
waiting to see how this one turns out in google.

This is the worst thing you can do since you don't know if it's on or
off page factors that got the SERP. If it's off page then you've made
the situation worse. It's most likely a combination,with one being
more than the other.

There is a quick way to make an educated guess as to if it's on or off
page factors. Look at the PR, if it's lower than the average for that
SERP then it's most likely on page or most of the incoming links have
the right anchor text. To confirm which look at the backlinks.

Look at the top ten sites for enough SERPs and you'll begin to see
quite quickly which are there for on and which are there for off page
factors.

The other factors like PR (I'm a 5 they are a 4), spamming issues,
link text, backlinks, etc, are all in place. After all my page rank
well on the keyword Junk Car with no problem, it is when I go plural I
can't find the key to getting ranked. If anything the sites that are
ranked well on the KW Junk Cars you would think they would not
be...but????????????????

Are most of your back links using the anchor text Junk Car by any
chance? Or at least not Junk Cars?

Well guys, this has been my experience to this date when it comes to
stemming....started these experiments on Nov 22....last change was Dec
23 when I followed the Cars only as my keyword. Just so you know, Junk
Cars is not my actual keyword....but used it as my example. My KW is a
two word phrase....I'm too new to know if it is ethical or not to
mention your actual keywords. Most posts I read, they seem to use
widget or widgets as samples...well, decided to use something
different...that's all.

I've never seen anyone complain at posters listing their keywords or
sites in general. I tend to post my as examples to help illustrate a
point.

Any input, advise, opinion, etc, would be appreciated.

Merry Christmas to all....all I want for Christmas is to understand
stem ranking...better yet, Santa, instead of replacing my missing
tooth...just give me an S.

LOL.

Have a good Christmas Day.

David

Thanks David.............you made some very valid points. Your words
are definitely going to be pasted with my other collection of SEO
advise. I'll wait and see if indeed I made things worse...if for some
reason it turns out that it worked by following the site ranked for
#1, I'll post it here. If not, I got a whole new year to try to figure
it out.

_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 16/11/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/
Free SEO Mailing List
http://www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/list?list_id=3290

SEO Dave wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:02:03 -0800, "RFI Admin" <rfi (AT) ruralfree (DOT) net
wrote:



http://www.rusticstone.net/

Jez.



Your page seems to be an exception to my theory. From studying your page and
the currently top ranked pages at google for the keyword phrase 'house
signs' I'm not seeing anything to help explain why you aren't listed.



Hi,

I don't think this site fits the standard florida site that lost it's
main SERPs.

Dave, it was pointed out to me by lots0 on serachguild.com that I may

have incurred a penalty for "bad neighborhood" links. Maybe the penalty
kicked in at exactly the same time as Florida. The links are gone
anyway. This still doesn't fit in with all the rest of my competitors
going down the ranks and also the only site that's left. And also I
still rank ok with house signs UK as a search term surely if I was on a
penalty I wouldn't rank for anything?

If I recall correctly you went from no where before asking for advice
here (or was it directly to me by email?) to getting short term
success.

Anyway, I know I gave you some advice which you took mostly and your
sites SERPs improved after a short period of time. When Florida hit
you lost the SERPs.

You did, and many thanks once again. Your advice is excellent.. I ranked

really well for about a week before the earth shattered! Still, better
to have ranked and lost than to not have ranked at all!

So this could be 'normal' Google sort of stuff, Freshbot listings
etc...

Since your PR isn't very high it may just be a case of needing more
links.

I know a nice guy with a couple of lingerie sites that rank very well...

BTW with regards the theory discussed in this thread, I haven't looked
at it fully, but if it helps your research in the first two weeks
after Florida my sites SERPs (both the one in the sig and
www.adultlingerieuk.com) improved significantly.

I tend to use both plural and singular forms of keywords on pages
(especially the Lingerie site). My Lingerie site dropped significantly
a week or two ago (SEO one holding strong), but this is possibly a
penalty/ban that will be unrelated to what others have experienced.

The guy in searchguild said that penalties are about 60 days, is this

correct?

Happy Christmas, David!

Jez.

David
_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 16/11/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/
Free SEO Mailing List
http://www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/list?list_id=3290

catherine yronwode wrote:

SEO Dave wrote:


On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:02:03 -0800, "RFI Admin" <rfi (AT) ruralfree (DOT) net
wrote:



http://www.rusticstone.net/

Jez.


Your page seems to be an exception to my theory. From studying
your page and the currently top ranked pages at google for the
keyword phrase 'housesigns' I'm not seeing anything to help
explain why you aren't listed.





I tend to use both plural and singular forms of keywords on pages
(especially the Lingerie site).



Just a thought: The plural form HOUSES does not appear. Also
the stemmed form SIGNAGE does not appear.

With the stemming tool I checked with (it's on searchguild.com) neither

of those variations came back. I am not sure if signage is a proper
word, (spellcheck doesn't like it - UK version anyway)

In using a stupid stemming program like Kvack, the one i
mentioned being stuck with for about a year when my isp
utilized it, one learns to write out all forms of EVERY word
in the search phrase.

house sign
house signs
signs for houses
housing signage
housed
signed
unsigned

And for the terminally retarded search engine algo, you will
also want synonyms:

plaque
plaques
home
homes
estate
estates
building
buildings
unit
units

Give this technique a try and see what happens, okay?

cat yronwode

Thanks for your reply cat. How about as an experiment I put all the

phrases at the bottom of the page. Just list them in plain text? I know
it will look crap but it may have the desired effect and if I don't hide
the text shouldn't get hit for spamming. Or is this a stupid idea?

Happy holidays!

Jez.

Jez wrote:

catherine yronwode wrote:

Just a thought: The plural form HOUSES does not appear. Also
the stemmed form SIGNAGE does not appear.

With the stemming tool I checked with (it's on searchguild.com) neither
of those variations came back. I am not sure if signage is a proper
word, (spellcheck doesn't like it - UK version anyway)

My Netscape spell checker doesn't recognize it, but it is a real
word in the USA. It refers to signs as collective design
elements, not to their content -- and appears in sentences like,
"The Willow Glen Home Owners Association has set certain
standards for signage within the Community."

Thanks for your reply cat. How about as an experiment I put all the
phrases at the bottom of the page. Just list them in plain text? I know
it will look crap but it may have the desired effect and if I don't hide
the text shouldn't get hit for spamming. Or is this a stupid idea?

I would use the words by writing them out in a series of sentences.

Cordially,

cat yronwode

The Sacred Landscape ------- http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html

Jez wrote:

SEO Dave wrote:

"RFI Admin" <rfi (AT) ruralfree (DOT) net> wrote:

http://www.rusticstone.net/

Your page seems to be an exception to my theory. From studying
your page and the currently top ranked pages at google for the
keyword phrase 'house signs' I'm not seeing anything to help
explain why you aren't listed.

I don't think this site fits the standard florida site that lost
it's main SERPs.

Dave, it was pointed out to me by lots0 on serachguild.com that I
may have incurred a penalty for "bad neighborhood" links.

Well, now you tell us! :-)

cat yronwode

Herb and Root Magic --- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooherbmagic.html

On 24 Dec 2003 16:42:49 -0800, SEOmix228 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com (CA) wrote:

I find this thread very interesting and hopefully my situation
relates. I see SEO Dave posted also. I have read many of his comments
and appreciate his advise. I have been playing with this stemming
function for sometime. Read many forums and like the one post stated,
at times I feel I'm going in circles.

You would think that stemming would be to your advantage. Optimize a
page for a keyword (i.e. junk cars) and hopefully your rank well on
all forms of junk cars. So far this has not been my experience. It
even gets more puzzling.

I tried several expermients with the following results.

Optimize page for Junk Car only....ranked #4 on Junk Car...not ranked
for Junked cars

Optimize page for Junk Cars only..... ranked #5 on Junk Car...still
not ranked for Junked cars.

One forum said I was being too one dimensional. So on to my next
exerpiment.

Optimize page for Junk Car, Junk Cars, Junk, Car, Cars.....still
ranked well for Junk car...not ranked for Junk Cars.

By now I was going crazy....one forum said, "hey, be satisfied that
you at least got a good ranking for Junk Car" Maybe, but I have 3
websites. I wanted to have my site come up in the first 3 SERPs for
Junk Car as well as Junk Cars. Obvioulsy, there were sites being
ranked on the KW Junk Cars, so my next experiment was to try to figure
out what they were doing.

Remember when this last update came around and everyone was
complaining about how some terms had big changes in their results and
some didn't? If it was all due to the introduction of stemming, it's
apparent that they have not yet implemented all possible word
variations yet, or else nearly all searches would have been affected.

So they may not have stemmed "junk" yet.

The #1 site for KW Junk Cars did not have the keyword Junk Cars at all
on their page....only in their title...that's it. However, they did
have the KW cars 11 times in the body text. So I followed suite....I
put Junk Cars in my title and put Cars 11 times in the text. I'm now
waiting to see how this one turns out in google.

Don't forget your Google fundamentals: If a word or phrase is in a
page's title, it's not unlikely to appear in links to that page.

Plus, how long have you let your changes germinate? It's been said
that Google updates continuously now, but somehow I doubt it updates
*every* page (or even any individual pages) continuously.