My Letter to Overture

#1

Following is my letter to Overture but my question to the group is ...

Who really benefits from these fraud clicks?

(A) I can't believe it is altavista.com and alltheweb.com. They are
well know respected companies and have too much too lose if they are
caught cheating.

(B) I can't believe it is a competitor. I don't see a competitor doing
this because it is too much trouble for the small charge they are
causing me to pay.

(C) I can't believe it is Overture itself cheating in order to get
advertisers to deposit more money. If an advertiser doesn't get a good
response they won't deposit more money.

So, who benefits from these fraudulent clicks? I just don't get it.

===== Actual Letter Below =====

I'm a new Overture advertiser and have been getting very bad response
compared to Google Adwords.

I've noticed that most visitors from Overture only go to the landing
page and then leave. Google Adwords visitors normally visit additional
pages.

I quickly looked through my webserver logs and noticed things that just
don't seem legitimate. Take the following four visitors from Overture
as an examples.

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:20:31:44 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=reseller+hosting&stq=
30" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 4.0)"

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:20:45:33 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.altavista.com/web/results?
q=reseller+web+hosting&stq=30" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5;
Windows NT 5.0)"

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:20:47:57 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=utf8
&q=reseller+hosting&_sb_lang=any&ocjp=1&o=60" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible;
MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 4.0; DigExt)"

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:21:12:18 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=utf8
&q=reseller+web+hosting&_sb_lang=any&ocjp=1&o=6 0" "Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 5.5; AOL 7.0; Windows 98)"

(1) Same IP address
(2) 4 visits within a 30 minute span
(3) Searched for 4 different keywords combinations
(4) Searched twice on both altavista and alltheweb
(4) Browser identification string is different for each

This is obviously fraud. How can the same IP have 4 different browser
identification strings within 30 minutes all searching for webhosting
(with different keywords) and all choosing to visit our site?

The two sites involved at altavista.com and alltheweb.com and they are
well known large reputable companies. So I do not believe they would be
create false clicks in order to get more money.

So who benefits from the fake visitors?

After our balance expires well will not be depositing more money with
Overture. Just wanted you to know the reasons why.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

#2

Quote:

Don't waste your time. I had ONE ip address use up my 2k budget
overnight. No compensation at all. Needless to say I soon stopped
using overture.

Sorry to hear that...

Of the three CPC search engines I have tried, the following is my
observation.

Google Adwords - good results but customer acquisition costs have doubled
from 1 year ago as keywords become more competitive.

Kanoodle.com - sucks

Overture.com - sucks

Anybody tried any others?

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

#3

Edward Alfert wrote in
<Xns953D6137594FDealfertrootmodecom (AT) 130 (DOT) 133.1.4>

Quote:

Don't waste your time. I had ONE ip address use up my 2k budget
overnight. No compensation at all. Needless to say I soon stopped
using overture.

Sorry to hear that...

Of the three CPC search engines I have tried, the following is my
observation.

Google Adwords - good results but customer acquisition costs have
doubled from 1 year ago as keywords become more competitive.

Kanoodle.com - sucks

Overture.com - sucks

Anybody tried any others?

No but I'd take some persuading. My experience mirrors yours - Google
Adwords is still, by a long way, the best ROI that I've used and I'm afraid
that I now don't bother with anything else. Apart from other factors, there
doesn't seem to be as much possibility for fraud though there'll probably be
a flood of bad experiences in response to that.

By coincidence, I've just got off the phone from I've a client whom we
signed up for Adwords on Wednesday and he's currently seeing a 90,000% ROI -
he thinks we're great

Of course, it won't stay like that - and then he'll be on the phone
complaining that he's not getting the same return that he used to

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.

#4

Quote:

Following is my letter to Overture but my question to the group is ...

Who really benefits from these fraud clicks?

(A) I can't believe it is altavista.com and alltheweb.com. They are
well know respected companies and have too much too lose if they are
caught cheating.

(B) I can't believe it is a competitor. I don't see a competitor doing
this because it is too much trouble for the small charge they are
causing me to pay.

(C) I can't believe it is Overture itself cheating in order to get
advertisers to deposit more money. If an advertiser doesn't get a good
response they won't deposit more money.

So, who benefits from these fraudulent clicks? I just don't get it.

===== Actual Letter Below =====

I'm a new Overture advertiser and have been getting very bad response
compared to Google Adwords.

I've noticed that most visitors from Overture only go to the landing
page and then leave. Google Adwords visitors normally visit additional
pages.

I quickly looked through my webserver logs and noticed things that just
don't seem legitimate. Take the following four visitors from Overture
as an examples.

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:20:31:44 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=reseller+hosting&stq=
30" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 4.0)"

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:20:45:33 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.altavista.com/web/results?
q=reseller+web+hosting&stq=30" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5;
Windows NT 5.0)"

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:20:47:57 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=utf8
&q=reseller+hosting&_sb_lang=any&ocjp=1&o=60" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible;
MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 4.0; DigExt)"

68.7.112.165 - - [05/Aug/2004:21:12:18 -0400] "GET /reseller HTTP/1.0"
200 45451 "http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=utf8
&q=reseller+web+hosting&_sb_lang=any&ocjp=1&o=6 0" "Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 5.5; AOL 7.0; Windows 98)"

(1) Same IP address
(2) 4 visits within a 30 minute span
(3) Searched for 4 different keywords combinations
(4) Searched twice on both altavista and alltheweb
(4) Browser identification string is different for each

This is obviously fraud. How can the same IP have 4 different browser
identification strings within 30 minutes all searching for webhosting
(with different keywords) and all choosing to visit our site?

The two sites involved at altavista.com and alltheweb.com and they are
well known large reputable companies. So I do not believe they would be
create false clicks in order to get more money.

So who benefits from the fake visitors?

After our balance expires well will not be depositing more money with
Overture. Just wanted you to know the reasons why.

Don't waste your time. I had ONE ip address use up my 2k budget overnight.
No compensation at all. Needless to say I soon stopped using overture.

#5

"Sven" <jimmy (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid.sorry> wrote in news:wyNQc.168$zx.80@newsfe4-
gui.ntli.net:

Quote:

Anybody tried any others?

I now use a third party to manage my ppc campaign. Worth the money,
certainly worth a look!

I'm not large enough for an advertising agency. Is there another type of
third-party that does ppc campaign management? Can you provide website
address?

Thanks.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

#6

"PeterMcC" <peter (AT) mccourt (DOT) org.uk> wrote in
news:41138f09$0$536$ed2619ec (AT) ptn-nntp-reader02 (DOT) plus.net:

Quote:

Edward Alfert wrote in
Xns953D6137594FDealfertrootmodecom (AT) 130 (DOT) 133.1.4

Don't waste your time. I had ONE ip address use up my 2k budget
overnight. No compensation at all. Needless to say I soon stopped
using overture.

Sorry to hear that...

Of the three CPC search engines I have tried, the following is my
observation.

Google Adwords - good results but customer acquisition costs have
doubled from 1 year ago as keywords become more competitive.

Kanoodle.com - sucks

Overture.com - sucks

Anybody tried any others?

No but I'd take some persuading. My experience mirrors yours - Google
Adwords is still, by a long way, the best ROI that I've used and I'm
afraid that I now don't bother with anything else. Apart from other
factors, there doesn't seem to be as much possibility for fraud though
there'll probably be a flood of bad experiences in response to that.

By coincidence, I've just got off the phone from I've a client whom we
signed up for Adwords on Wednesday and he's currently seeing a 90,000%
ROI - he thinks we're great

Of course, it won't stay like that - and then he'll be on the phone
complaining that he's not getting the same return that he used to

Customer Aquisition Cost = CAC
Average Monthly Rate we bill = AMR
Expenses = E

1 Year ago:
((AMR - E) * 12) / CAC = 4.0... Exceptional return on investment (Break-
even in 3 months)

Today:
((AMR - E) * 12) / CAC = 2.4... Very Good results (Break-even in 5 months)

If in the next 1 year the cost to acquire a customer from google adwords
doubles again, it will take 10 months to break-even on a new customer.
With the downward pressure of monthly hosting prices, it might mean break-
even will be more than 12 months.

I'm desparately looking for other good advertising sources.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

#7

Quote:

Anybody tried any others?

I now use a third party to manage my ppc campaign. Worth the money,
certainly worth a look!

#8

Quote:

I'm not large enough for an advertising agency.

I thought the same

Quote:

Is there another type of
third-party that does ppc campaign management? Can you provide website
address?

Email me at mrlove [attttt] gmail [doooooot] com for details.

#9

Edward Alfert wrote:

Quote:

68.7.112.165

Hmm, the address is on the Cox Cable Network. You never know it could be
a proxy server but it appears to be a normal cable modem user, this is
the machine: ip68-7-112-165.sd.sd.cox.net. If the time information in
your log files is accurate you could ask Cox support who it is.

David

#10

They can not tell you that information by law. They could tell you if it
was the same user but they are under no obligation to do so, and as such I
think they would not.

I deal with hackers and spammers on a daily basis and without going through
the police it is next to impossible to get this information.

--

Dan Pickard
-----------------------
http://hosting.fast-trak.net
http://www.design.fast-trak.net
"David Off" <david.off_dumpthisbit_ (AT) voila (DOT) fr> wrote

Quote:

Edward Alfert wrote:

68.7.112.165

Hmm, the address is on the Cox Cable Network. You never know it could be
a proxy server but it appears to be a normal cable modem user, this is
the machine: ip68-7-112-165.sd.sd.cox.net. If the time information in
your log files is accurate you could ask Cox support who it is.

David