Google and fraudulent clicks

Google says they take great pains to ensure that all clicks are valid - but
I just did a quick test on mine from the same computer on one specific
search, and it was clear that Google was charging me for each click.

So what ever they claim they are doing, I truly doubt it. Is it totally our
responsibility, or does Google have some minimum responsibility to ensure
valid clicks?

Any experiences with this?

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:52:14 -0500, "Neil W" <neilw (AT) REMOVEnetlib (DOT) com>
wrote:

Google says they take great pains to ensure that all clicks are valid - but
I just did a quick test on mine from the same computer on one specific
search, and it was clear that Google was charging me for each click.

So what ever they claim they are doing, I truly doubt it. Is it totally our
responsibility, or does Google have some minimum responsibility to ensure
valid clicks?

Any experiences with this?

I was once involved iwth a network of sites that used a PPC
advertising scheme. The clicks were not immune to being adjusted if x
number from the same IP showed. My son did like you did, only his
excuse was better in that he was only 4 at the time adn only knew blue
text generally meant "link" and clicking on those would take him to
another site.

His clicks registered, then the monetary amount adjusted on the other
side to erase the amount he clicked. The log files on the network's
side shared what advertisers they would credit accounts of.

Also, though, you shouldn't "test it"; Google has been known to drop
people out of the Adsense program for clicking on their own site's
ads. So that's another way they can prevent paying someone for
fraudulent clicks. I would say those in the Adsenes program are only
getting a scaled down version of the stats/logs for the ads but Google
has a better more indepth set.

Carol

C.W. wrote:

Also, though, you shouldn't "test it"; Google has been known to drop
people out of the Adsense program for clicking on their own site's
ads.

Uhm, there are many ways to make that hard.

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Umm... I would find it quite suspect if Google dropped someone for testing
their own links. That would tell me that Google doesnt want too close a
scrutiny on their claims about ignoring bogus clicks.

___________________________________

"C.W." <from_you (AT) nomail (DOT) com> wrote

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:52:14 -0500, "Neil W" <neilw (AT) REMOVEnetlib (DOT) com
wrote:

Google says they take great pains to ensure that all clicks are valid -
but
I just did a quick test on mine from the same computer on one specific
search, and it was clear that Google was charging me for each click.

So what ever they claim they are doing, I truly doubt it. Is it totally
our
responsibility, or does Google have some minimum responsibility to ensure
valid clicks?

Any experiences with this?

I was once involved iwth a network of sites that used a PPC
advertising scheme. The clicks were not immune to being adjusted if x
number from the same IP showed. My son did like you did, only his
excuse was better in that he was only 4 at the time adn only knew blue
text generally meant "link" and clicking on those would take him to
another site.

His clicks registered, then the monetary amount adjusted on the other
side to erase the amount he clicked. The log files on the network's
side shared what advertisers they would credit accounts of.

Also, though, you shouldn't "test it"; Google has been known to drop
people out of the Adsense program for clicking on their own site's
ads. So that's another way they can prevent paying someone for
fraudulent clicks. I would say those in the Adsenes program are only
getting a scaled down version of the stats/logs for the ads but Google
has a better more indepth set.

Carol

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 23:51:50 -0500, "Neil" <neilw (AT) REMOVEnetlib (DOT) com>
wrote:

Umm... I would find it quite suspect if Google dropped someone for testing
their own links. That would tell me that Google doesnt want too close a
scrutiny on their claims about ignoring bogus clicks.

Google states in the agreement, which has to be ageed to in order to
participate in the program, that site owners should not click on their
own links - even to check to make sure the links work.

Now I think they would let a reasonable number of self-clicks slide -
as in right clicking to copy the URL - for blocking - one may
inadvertantly click on "opin in new window" or something. But if the
person did this often or what was felt to being unreasonable amount to
be 'accidental' - then it may appear as though the person was doing it
'not quite by accident' but in hopes of building up the tally owed
them by a few cents or to figure out what ads paid what amoutn to tell
others what ones to click on.

When I was involved with the content site network - within a week of
the first sites being unveiled, some of the editors already had formed
what was called 'click circles' - people willing to go by their sites
and click through the pages, and click on some ads along the way.

Many of the above mentioned editors used to be involved with
Themestream [no longer around] where the phrase click circle was not
uncommon. A number of people with articles had click circles created
with several folks. The goal of the circle was not necessarily reading
the content but more toward revenue thoughts.

My guess would be that Google has heard about click circles since
those have been around for at least 4 years now - if not longer. And
some people have reported that their room mates or family members
clicked on the Adsense ads, on a shared PC, and Google knew. So
yes, one can be booted out of the program for clicking on the ad links
on their own sites.

When it comes to PPC - someone invariably will try to cheat, and in
clamping down on cheaters or the methods used by those cheaters then
sometimes innocents risk "getting caught" also just for inadvertently
slipping over the line.

Carol

C.W. wrote:

When it comes to PPC - someone invariably will try to cheat, and in
clamping down on cheaters or the methods used by those cheaters then
sometimes innocents risk "getting caught" also just for inadvertently
slipping over the line.

Carol

Good post Carol. And as we know from CountScubula Google are not afraid
to call the feds if they think you are trying to defraud them. Why do
people think it is reasonable to click on their own ads?

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:21:22 +0100, David George
<david.george (AT) g-dumpthisbit-mail (DOT) com> wrote:

C.W. wrote:
When it comes to PPC - someone invariably will try to cheat, and in
clamping down on cheaters or the methods used by those cheaters then
sometimes innocents risk "getting caught" also just for inadvertently
slipping over the line. Carol

Good post Carol. And as we know from CountScubula Google are not afraid
to call the feds if they think you are trying to defraud them. Why do
people think it is reasonable to click on their own ads?

Isn't it possible, just maybe possible, that one of the ads that show up
in your own page, has an attractive content and you wish to explore the
site behind that ad? After all, the ad is placed based on your own page
content and the site it refers to might therefor appeal to you. Without
thinking you click the ad, because you want to know more. The ad served
its purpose. Why should that be wrong?


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Barbara de Zoete wrote:

Isn't it possible, just maybe possible, that one of the ads that show
up in your own page, has an attractive content and you wish to explore
the site behind that ad? After all, the ad is placed based on your own
page content and the site it refers to might therefor appeal to you.
Without thinking you click the ad, because you want to know more. The
ad served its purpose. Why should that be wrong?

Yes it is possible but you are still breaching the T&C you signed up to
but it is certaily possible for people to accidentally open an ad-link
and it would be a shame to be punished for this.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:41:26 +0100, David George
<david.george (AT) g-dumpthisbit-mail (DOT) com> wrote:

Barbara de Zoete wrote:
Isn't it possible, just maybe possible, that one of the ads that show
up in your own page, has an attractive content and you wish to explore
the site behind that ad? After all, the ad is placed based on your own
page content and the site it refers to might therefor appeal to you.
Without thinking you click the ad, because you want to know more. The
ad served its purpose. Why should that be wrong?

Yes it is possible but you are still breaching the T&C you signed up to

I understand that. It's just a 'lot of work' to type the URL for the page
where you could have clicked it for ease.

but it is certaily possible for people to accidentally open an ad-link
and it would be a shame to be punished for this.

If it is so obvious that a click comes from the owner of a site, why
doesn't Google just make the mechanism so, that such a click adds no
income (and no cost for the advertising party) instead of saying it is
fraudulent? Would make things easy on all parties involved, me think.

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Barbara de Zoete wrote:

If it is so obvious that a click comes from the owner of a site,

I doubt it is obvious. For example, I can set up a VPN connection to the
Netherlands, and presto, I click from the Netherlands, while I live in
Mexico.

--
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Perl & Google/WWW: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced programmer and SEO available: PR7 http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html