frontpage shared borders - seo

Hi

Can anyone help me with a bit of advice?

I am about to produce a school/charity website using Frontpage. Before
starting I have read books on Search Engine Optimisation to make sure
the site is indexed and well ranked by Google. I have picked up about
not using Frames, having keyword-rich content, good links etc.

Having decided not to use frames (and feeling that Include Content and
CSS is beyond me) I want to consider shared borders (containing tables)
which seem to be easy to use and allow easy editing of a site where all
pages can be linked to all other pages via text links.

However, my questions are;

1. will the spiders be able to index a site properly that uses shared
borders?
2. will all elements of the web be spidered including top.htm, left.htm
etc.and will the spiders therefore pick up the text links (in
left.htm)?
3. is the fact that the index.htm page has all the body text close to
the top of the page (rather than all the usual navigation button text
and overhead) a benefit or not?
4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

Thanks

Luisp

"luisp" <luisp (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote

Hi

Can anyone help me with a bit of advice?

I am about to produce a school/charity website using Frontpage. Before
starting I have read books on Search Engine Optimisation to make sure
the site is indexed and well ranked by Google. I have picked up about
not using Frames, having keyword-rich content, good links etc.

Having decided not to use frames (and feeling that Include Content and
CSS is beyond me) I want to consider shared borders (containing tables)
which seem to be easy to use and allow easy editing of a site where all
pages can be linked to all other pages via text links.

However, my questions are;

1. will the spiders be able to index a site properly that uses shared
borders?

Yes

2. will all elements of the web be spidered including top.htm, left.htm
etc.and will the spiders therefore pick up the text links (in
left.htm)?

This is frames and not shared borders. Shared borders are on the same page
not different pages. The HTML is put in by FP when the page is uploaded.

3. is the fact that the index.htm page has all the body text close to
the top of the page (rather than all the usual navigation button text
and overhead) a benefit or not?

You are thinking about frames again. Like I said all the stuff is on the
page index, or whatever. Sample of shared borders are in my sig.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

This question I don't understand.

Stacey
--
Massage Therapy - http://massage-therapy-101.net
Valentine Gifts-
http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...-day-gifts.htm
Flowers- http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...ts-flowers.htm

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:54:50 +0100, "Stacey"
<Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

You are thinking about frames again. Like I said all the stuff is on the
page index, or whatever. Sample of shared borders are in my sig.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

This question I don't understand.

Stacey

I don't either - why not render it academic by making sure all
instances of individual shared border pages, whatever you mean them to
be, have a link out of them somewhere visible?

BB
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/david...ges/index.html kruse (AT) crystal-liaison (DOT) com
Gifty! Shiny! BB!

"Big Bill" <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:54:50 +0100, "Stacey"
Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:


You are thinking about frames again. Like I said all the stuff is on the
page index, or whatever. Sample of shared borders are in my sig.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

This question I don't understand.

Stacey

I don't either - why not render it academic by making sure all
instances of individual shared border pages, whatever you mean them to
be, have a link out of them somewhere visible?

Ok I gave it some thought and know what the op means. OK here again this is
frames. Borders are not separate pages they are borders. Borders that are
shared so they will be the same on each one of your pages that you make them
to be on. They can be on selected pages or all of them. You can make them
seamless like http://thehomedecor.com/home1/ - this is a design I have been
working on. Or make them defined and stand out like the ones I use in my
sig. I also have them http://julias-beaded-jewelry.staceyssimplestuff.com/ -
still need to move things off in css, but that is work. Yes, I know it
doesn't have keywords and descriptions. I get lazy sometimes. I put them on
and my hosting did an update and lost them. Oh well. Anyway, remember think
of it as 1 page that items will be on each page so no way to get stuck in
the top of say top.htm of a frame with no links as these are not frames.:-)
Of course when frames are used and browser that understand them you will not
be like that anyway or shouldn't. Unless someone goes to the indexed top
without links which you should have a no index if you are using frames.
Phew!

Stacey
--
Massage Therapy - http://massage-therapy-101.net
Valentine Gifts-
http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...-day-gifts.htm
Flowers- http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...ts-flowers.htm

"luisp" <luisp (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote

Hi

Can anyone help me with a bit of advice?

I am about to produce a school/charity website using Frontpage. Before
starting I have read books on Search Engine Optimisation to make sure
the site is indexed and well ranked by Google. I have picked up about
not using Frames, having keyword-rich content, good links etc.

Having decided not to use frames (and feeling that Include Content and
CSS is beyond me) I want to consider shared borders (containing tables)
which seem to be easy to use and allow easy editing of a site where all
pages can be linked to all other pages via text links.

Included content is easy to work with and I'm sure it isn't beyond you but
if your website is going to be small, shared borders can be simplest option.

However, my questions are;

1. will the spiders be able to index a site properly that uses shared
borders?
Yes

2. will all elements of the web be spidered including top.htm, left.htm
etc.and will the spiders therefore pick up the text links (in
left.htm)?
I think when FrontPage publishes the site, it writes the shared border

portions of the page as part of the actual page. In other words, when you
work in FrontPage, you see the home page as a combination of index.htm +
top.htm + left.htm but when it is published it writes everything as
index.htm.

3. is the fact that the index.htm page has all the body text close to
the top of the page (rather than all the usual navigation button text
and overhead) a benefit or not?
It (the code) will look different when it is published. FrontPage will grab

the code that is in shared borders and place it where it should be in
index.htm (and other pages) when you publish the site.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?
I think you would have to make some major mistakes for this to happen.

Thanks

Luisp

"Stacey" <Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote

"Big Bill" <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message
newsl8ds1h3n5ps3cau3d1jf1hokhp3bgbchi (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:54:50 +0100, "Stacey"
Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:


You are thinking about frames again. Like I said all the stuff is on the
page index, or whatever. Sample of shared borders are in my sig.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

This question I don't understand.

Stacey

I don't either - why not render it academic by making sure all
instances of individual shared border pages, whatever you mean them to
be, have a link out of them somewhere visible?


Ok I gave it some thought and know what the op means. OK here again this
is frames. Borders are not separate pages they are borders.

I think you are making a mistake (sort of). Borders are separate pages in
FrontPage but when published, FrontPage writes the borders as part of the
pages they belong to. The OP is looking at it from the perspective of how
it looks in FrontPage, not the server. FrontPage automatically creates the
Borders folder and places each border page (top.htm) in that folder.

Borders that are shared so they will be the same on each one of your pages
that you make them to be on. They can be on selected pages or all of them.
You can make them seamless like http://thehomedecor.com/home1/ - this is a
design I have been working on. Or make them defined and stand out like the
ones I use in my sig. I also have them
http://julias-beaded-jewelry.staceyssimplestuff.com/ - still need to move
things off in css, but that is work. Yes, I know it doesn't have keywords
and descriptions. I get lazy sometimes. I put them on and my hosting did
an update and lost them. Oh well. Anyway, remember think of it as 1 page
that items will be on each page so no way to get stuck in the top of say
top.htm of a frame with no links as these are not frames.:-) Of course
when frames are used and browser that understand them you will not be like
that anyway or shouldn't. Unless someone goes to the indexed top without
links which you should have a no index if you are using frames. Phew!

Stacey
--
Massage Therapy - http://massage-therapy-101.net
Valentine Gifts-
http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...-day-gifts.htm
Flowers- http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...ts-flowers.htm

"John" <nospam (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

"luisp" <luisp (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1137073756.285391.229300 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com...

<snip>

2. will all elements of the web be spidered including top.htm, left.htm
etc.and will the spiders therefore pick up the text links (in
left.htm)?
I think when FrontPage publishes the site, it writes the shared border
portions of the page as part of the actual page. In other words, when you
work in FrontPage, you see the home page as a combination of index.htm +
top.htm + left.htm but when it is published it writes everything as
index.htm.

No when you work with from page you see the page as one page. The borders
look like table formatting almost when working in the normal pane. They are
tables yu just can't see them in the HTML pane as MS will write the HTML
once you save it(publish) it. They are not seperate pages and are not view
as top.htm etc.

3. is the fact that the index.htm page has all the body text close to
the top of the page (rather than all the usual navigation button text
and overhead) a benefit or not?

It (the code) will look different when it is published. FrontPage will
grab the code that is in shared borders and place it where it should be in
index.htm (and other pages) when you publish the site.

You will not see the code when looking at it with FP in the HTML. The only
time you will see the code is viewing the source once the page is displayed
in a broswer.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

I think you would have to make some major mistakes for this to happen.

Actually it can't happen if using shared borders and adding links to them.

Stacey
--
Massage Therapy - http://massage-therapy-101.net
Valentine Gifts-
http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...-day-gifts.htm
Flowers- http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...ts-flowers.htm

"John" <nospam (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

"Stacey" <Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:dq6nqm$p97$02$1 (AT) news (DOT) t-online.com...
"Big Bill" <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message
newsl8ds1h3n5ps3cau3d1jf1hokhp3bgbchi (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:54:50 +0100, "Stacey"
Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:


You are thinking about frames again. Like I said all the stuff is on the
page index, or whatever. Sample of shared borders are in my sig.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

This question I don't understand.

Stacey

I don't either - why not render it academic by making sure all
instances of individual shared border pages, whatever you mean them to
be, have a link out of them somewhere visible?


Ok I gave it some thought and know what the op means. OK here again this
is frames. Borders are not separate pages they are borders.

I think you are making a mistake (sort of). Borders are separate pages in
FrontPage but when published, FrontPage writes the borders as part of the
pages they belong to. The OP is looking at it from the perspective of how
it looks in FrontPage, not the server. FrontPage automatically creates
the Borders folder and places each border page (top.htm) in that folder.

No sorry, I am not mistaken. You are and so is the OP. You have top, left,
etc borders when making them color etc for the properties, but not top.htm
etc. When you view them with FP you see the whole thing. Not as top.htm etc.
And I have had FP open every day for about 3 weeks straight totally working
on new sites with borders so believe me I know how they look.:-)

Stacey -Experience FP user for 4 years!
--
Massage Therapy - http://massage-therapy-101.net
Valentine Gifts-
http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...-day-gifts.htm
Flowers- http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...ts-flowers.htm

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:19:11 +0100, John <nospam (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

I think you would have to make some major mistakes for this to happen.

First mistake already done: using Microsoft program for site generation

Best,
Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=pH-ca...right=pH-scale
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=pH-ca...=pH-definition

"Stacey" <Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote

"John" <nospam (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:SHBxf.927$y65.225 (AT) fe12 (DOT) lga...

"Stacey" <Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:dq6nqm$p97$02$1 (AT) news (DOT) t-online.com...
"Big Bill" <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message
newsl8ds1h3n5ps3cau3d1jf1hokhp3bgbchi (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:54:50 +0100, "Stacey"
Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:


You are thinking about frames again. Like I said all the stuff is on
the
page index, or whatever. Sample of shared borders are in my sig.

4. could a user end up being dropped into one of the shared border
pages (i.e. left.htm) if this contains text links, or stranded in
top.htm with no link out?

This question I don't understand.

Stacey

I don't either - why not render it academic by making sure all
instances of individual shared border pages, whatever you mean them to
be, have a link out of them somewhere visible?


Ok I gave it some thought and know what the op means. OK here again this
is frames. Borders are not separate pages they are borders.

I think you are making a mistake (sort of). Borders are separate pages
in FrontPage but when published, FrontPage writes the borders as part of
the pages they belong to. The OP is looking at it from the perspective
of how it looks in FrontPage, not the server. FrontPage automatically
creates the Borders folder and places each border page (top.htm) in that
folder.

No sorry, I am not mistaken. You are and so is the OP. You have top, left,
etc borders when making them color etc for the properties, but not top.htm
etc. When you view them with FP you see the whole thing. Not as top.htm
etc. And I have had FP open every day for about 3 weeks straight totally
working on new sites with borders so believe me I know how they look.:-)

Stacey -Experience FP user for 4 years!

MS hides the border folder when you open a site but if you select File |
Open (not Open Site) you can open the border ( _border ) folder and the
pages within top.htm, left.htm (whatever you have a border for). This is
the way MS implemented it for FrontPage 2003, not sure how they do it for
previous versions.

--
Massage Therapy - http://massage-therapy-101.net
Valentine Gifts-
http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...-day-gifts.htm
Flowers- http://allgiftshop.net/occasion-gift...ts-flowers.htm