filtered keywords?

Is there any doubt about Google filtering keywords
or is it now generally accepted that they are?

"T.J." <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid> wrote

Is there any doubt about Google filtering keywords
or is it now generally accepted that they are?

i dont think so, it seems that all 1 and 2 phrase combinations are now being
filtered.

mark

mark | r:

it seems that all 1 and 2 phrase combinations are now being filtered.

Where "being filtered" apparently means: "ranked differently from a couple
of weeks ago".

--
René Pijlman

Wat wil jij leren? http://www.leren.nl

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 19:49:08 +0100, Rene Pijlman
<reply.in.the.newsgroup (AT) my (DOT) address.is.invalid> wrote:

Where "being filtered" apparently means: "ranked differently from a couple
of weeks ago".

In that case we have filters :-))

The evidence is weak at best that there are specific filters for
competitive keywords. Everything I have looked at doesn't hold up to
detailed investigation.

Every time I've posted here saying I don't see a filter, don't see the
significance of -googlegoo (or scroogle) to the new algo, I've never
seen a convincing argument.

I find the filter idea (I don't think it deserves to be called a
hypothesis) seems to me to be a lot of wishful thinking by those who
have lost their SERPs this month and want to vent at Google.

I'm very happy to be convinced otherwise, since if I'm wrong I'll be
working with bad information which will mean my SERPs could suffer
long term. So if anyone wants to convince me with a well thought out
argument making no big assumptions like -googlegoo (scroogle) gives
last months SERPs I'm all ears.

David
_
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"SEO Dave" <ooar123SP (AT) AMntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 19:49:08 +0100, Rene Pijlman
reply.in.the.newsgroup (AT) my (DOT) address.is.invalid> wrote:

Where "being filtered" apparently means: "ranked differently from a couple
of weeks ago".

In that case we have filters :-))

The evidence is weak at best that there are specific filters for
competitive keywords. Everything I have looked at doesn't hold up to
detailed investigation.

Every time I've posted here saying I don't see a filter, don't see the
significance of -googlegoo (or scroogle) to the new algo, I've never
seen a convincing argument.

I find the filter idea (I don't think it deserves to be called a
hypothesis) seems to me to be a lot of wishful thinking by those who
have lost their SERPs this month and want to vent at Google.

I'm very happy to be convinced otherwise, since if I'm wrong I'll be
working with bad information which will mean my SERPs could suffer
long term. So if anyone wants to convince me with a well thought out
argument making no big assumptions like -googlegoo (scroogle) gives
last months SERPs I'm all ears.

Put yourself in the position of wanting to buy a wheelchair ramp

online in the UK.
Use google.co.uk
type in the obvious search phrase wheelchair ramps
hopeless.
Try searching in UK pages only
1 & 2 directories
3 Info on access somewhere
4 Site about .CSS (with a few links on)
5 About Nationwide accessibility
6 Directory
7 Museum
8 How to get wheelchair in to a car
9 info on a powerchair
10 directory
etc.
not one supplier in the top 50.

Try searching wheelchair ramps - googlegoo
top 12 all suppliers
13 &14 directories
etc.

Now try searching ramps Mostly suppliers again
Ramps for wheelchairs Suppliers again

It looks like all commercial sites have been dropped
for the phrase wheelchair ramps but not ramps or
ramps for wheelchairs

T.J.:

Put yourself in the position of wanting to buy

Ah, there's the misunderstanding. Most web users are in the position of
wanting to read, not buy. Google understands this.

--
René Pijlman

Wat wil jij leren? http://www.leren.nl

Ah, there's the misunderstanding. Most web users are in the position
of wanting to read, not buy. Google understands this.

good call.

I do believe a commericial filter has been turned on and I can't say that it
is right or wrong. It makes perfect sense that if you want information go to
google.com and if you want to buy something go to froogle.com From
google's point of view, that's a nice setup

Rene Pijlman wrote:

T.J.:
Put yourself in the position of wanting to buy

Ah, there's the misunderstanding. Most web users are in the position
of wanting to read, not buy. Google understands this.

Right. His search term was "wheelchair ramps." Why assume anyone
searching that necessarilt wants to buy one? Try "buy wheelchair ramps"
in Google. LOTS of sellers at top.

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:23:49 -0000, "T.J." <no1 (AT) home (DOT) invalid> wrote:

Put yourself in the position of wanting to buy a wheelchair ramp
online in the UK.
Use google.co.uk
type in the obvious search phrase wheelchair ramps
hopeless.
Try searching in UK pages only
1 & 2 directories
3 Info on access somewhere
4 Site about .CSS (with a few links on)
5 About Nationwide accessibility
6 Directory
7 Museum
8 How to get wheelchair in to a car
9 info on a powerchair
10 directory
etc.
not one supplier in the top 50.

Hi,

Before jumping to the conclusion that a person searching for this
phrase is going to be looking for a supplier let's do some research.

Overture gives these results for a search for Wheelchair Ramps-

8005 wheel chair ramp
666 portable wheel chair ramp
497 build a wheel chair ramp *
317 building wheel chair ramp *
282 wheel chair ramp plan *
174 wheel chair ramp design *
131 wooden wheel chair ramp
127 wheel chair ramp van
113 wheel chair lift and ramp
113 used wheel chair ramp
108 wheel chair ramp specification *
92 chair ramp rental wheel
87 aluminum wheel chair ramp
78 chair ramp uk wheel
76 wheel chair ramp construction *
66 chair home ramp wheel
58 chair ramp slope wheel
54 chair ramp standard wheel
50 chair code ramp wheel **
42 wheel chair access ramp
41 building chair code ramp wheel *
40 building chair plan ramp wheel *
38 chair ramp regulation wheel **
34 wheel chair ramp and ada
34 discount wheel chair ramp
34 chair ramp requirement wheel **
32 chair ramp stock wheel wooden

The big one wheel chair ramp with 8005 doesn't tell you much, they
could be looking for suppliers or anything.

A lot of the others though (those with a * or **) suggest quite a lot
of the searches are not looking to buy a ramp, but make or instal one.
A quick rounding of the numbers gives over 1700 searches looking to
build or instal a ramp.

Of the rest (about 1700 searches again) only these two (150 searches)
are obviously looking to buy-

113 used wheel chair ramp
34 discount wheel chair ramp

Even if we assume half the people are looking to buy and the other
half install/build which I don't think is true (more like 70%+ looking
to build/install) if the SERP is useful to the majority of visitors it
should be at least half information sites (those supplying build
instructions, specs etc...) the remaining sites everything else
(including e commerce sites).

Back to the SERP-

1. Information Site (about a bus wheelchair ramp application).
2. Information Site (Directory with links to relevant sites).
3. Information Site (Directory with links to relevant sites).
4. Uni site (not a good result, just mentions wheel chair access).
5. About trains (not a good result, just mentions wheel chair access,
though is about design).
6. About CSS (not a good result, uses wheel chair access as an analogy
to using CSS, though is about design again (though wrong type)).
7. A bank going on about accessability.
8. Information Site about alzheimers, deals with design and
installation (very relevant).
9. Information Site, disability directory with relevant links.

On the page we have-

Rehab Designs, Inc. - Providers of portable aluminum wheelchair and
scooter ramps. Can be used in businesses, homes, vans and trucks.

This is highly relevant to the Overture results and matches multiple
phrases. I consider that page a good find as it links to what at first
site looks like a useful page (didn't look).

10. Information Site, disability directory with relevant links.

When you consider the Overture results with at least half are looking
for installation or design info rather than to buy this SERP looks a
heck of a lot better than when you assume everyone is looking to buy a
ramp!

There are plenty of info sites in there plus a few bad ones, so could
be better. Though this is going to be a difficult SERP if Googles gone
more towards on page optimisation rather than link popularity/anchor
text. Since there are a lot of pages out there that will mention
wheelchair ramps (uni sites for example) rather than be about
wheelchair ramps.

I think it could be better, but could of been a lot worse. If it was a
good SERP you should see some pages that show how to build wheelchair
ramps, specs etc.... since that's what people are looking for and they
are absent. I'd think it was a worse SERP if it was filled with e
commerce sites.

Try searching wheelchair ramps - googlegoo
top 12 all suppliers
13 &14 directories
etc.

Let me ask you this, the -googlegoo results are they identical to last
months results?

The ones I track are not and they are all highly competitive.

The above results are close sometimes identical to the allinanchor:
results. This just means -googlegoo results are based on link
popularity/anchor text and is open to spamming as is evident with
those results and IMO mean nothing. Searches are mostly looking for
info sites and getting e commerce sites. The new algos results though
not perfect are 100x better than the allinanchor: ones.

Now try searching ramps Mostly suppliers again

Overture Ramps search-

14630 ramp
12018 skateboard ramp
9012 pet ramp
8416 dog ramp
8005 wheel chair ramp
5913 ramp plan
4286 handicap ramp
4046 aluminum ramp
3992 motorcycle ramp
3927 skate ramp

Google gives results that are relevant to the specific searches above.

Ramps for wheelchairs Suppliers again

Are you saying this one isn't 'filtered'?

Check the -googlegoo results, they are different to the standard ones,
so based on the filter idea it's filtered.

It looks like all commercial sites have been dropped
for the phrase wheelchair ramps but not ramps or
ramps for wheelchairs

It may look that way, but that's not convincing evidence it's true. SO
far I've seen no real evidence there's a filter etc.... just
speculation based on -googlegoo!!

Word stemming is a much more interesting development at Google than
the -googlegoo thing.

David
_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 16/11/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/
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SEO Dave wrote:

Word stemming is a much more interesting development at Google than
the -googlegoo thing.

David
_

I'm curious, you've never really commented on why you think lingerie
wasn't affected by this whole things or perhaps you do think it has
which would mean that nearly all the sites there have superior seo to
the rest of us mere mortals?

I think the true test of your seo abilities will be to get a site on
page one of my serp as long as it stays the way it is now changed by
this new florida algo. Especially since you think my serp is so much
easier than yours is it should be child's play for you.