DMOZ.ORG editors selling spots in Open Directory to Scientologists, DMOZ not interested?

From email sent to staff (AT) dmoz (DOT) org

Note that the claims made by outflow.net may be false and fraudulent, and
that they may in fact have no dmoz.org editors. However, the pattern of various
Scientologists who share a "mini link farm" with the SEO company also having
entries on dmoz.org seems rather convenient.

I have received no response from dmoz.org whatsoever, so I consider that an
invitation to publicize the issue further, starting here.

---

A company is advertising that they can get their customers
better search ranking because their staff are dmoz editors. I know there has
been previous
difficulty with this sort of thing.

This is the claim by the search engine optimizers:

http://www.outflow.net/WebMarketing.htm

This is their claim:

"We are editors for the Open Directory Project (dmoz.org) which helps to get our
submitted sites listed in one week instead of waiting up to 6 months. Getting
listed in the ODP has a very strong influence on all search engines
immediately. The cost of the Basic Web Marketing Package is $497.00."

They have more expensive packages, too, but they're clearly and obviously
selling ranking.

This company specifically markets their "services" to other Scientologists.
This is part of another plan of optimizing the search engine rankings
of Scientology-related sites. Last time something like this happened, it
resulted in Scientologist editor "andir" being removed and half the contents of
the pro-Scientology directory being removed.

This appears to be in conjunction with another spam campaign. Particularly, the
Scientologists are including a sort of "mini-dmoz" on their pages, each a
mini-link farm, pointing to Scientology-owned sites. I imagine many of the very
sites involved in this "pay for dmoz slots" campaign are going to show up on
this Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...%2C+raising%22

First, scroll past the obviously Scientology-related links. (You may wish to
check these in the Scientology category under Religion & Belief as well for
obvious spamminess. I am not going to second-guess what qualifies as spam and
what is just barely acceptable, but last time this happened, the Scientologist
editor "andir" was promptly axed and about half the links in the category
removed.) I have a page at http://www.operatingthetan.com/google/ explaining
how Scientology has in the past exploited dmoz as part of an overall campaign of
influencing rankings on the Google search engine.

This is the most obvious hit generated by that Google search:
http://www.outflow.net/directory/

That's the very company selling dmoz slots.

Here's another:
http://www.wordsinarow.com/scientology/

What is that? Why it's another search engine optimization company!
http://www.wordsinarow.com

Here they are in dmoz, twice:
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/W...and_Tutorials/
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/W...sic_Service/W/

Here's another popped up by the original Google search:
http://www.bristolwebdesign.com/directory/

Here it is in dmoz:
http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/Unit...nomy/Internet/

The pattern repeats over and over again.

Note that this part of my commentary is more in the nature of noting these
companies in a concerted strategy against Google rather than the Open Directory
Project. The only company I'm accusing of specifically selling dmoz rank is
outflow.net, and they're pretty blatant about it.

I imagine if you track down sites connected to outflow.net you will find which
editors are selling ranking.

I am giving this about a week's advance warning before I start taking action
against this kind of activity on other fronts. As of yet, I haven't quite
figured out what to do, but as I'm sure you've had to deal with things like this
in the past, you will have some kind of policy in place. I've rarely seen a
company so blatantly abuse the ODP.
--
Home of the Buttersquash Conspiracy http://buttersquash.net

ptsc wrote:

From email sent to staff (AT) dmoz (DOT) org

Note that the claims made by outflow.net may be false and fraudulent,
and
that they may in fact have no dmoz.org editors. However, the pattern
of various Scientologists who share a "mini link farm" with the SEO
company also having entries on dmoz.org seems rather convenient.

I have received no response from dmoz.org whatsoever, so I consider
that an invitation to publicize the issue further, starting here.

---

A company is advertising that they can get their customers
better search ranking because their staff are dmoz editors. I know
there has been previous
difficulty with this sort of thing.

This is the claim by the search engine optimizers:

http://www.outflow.net/WebMarketing.htm

This is their claim:

"We are editors for the Open Directory Project (dmoz.org) which helps
to get our submitted sites listed in one week instead of waiting up
to 6 months. Getting listed in the ODP has a very strong influence
on all search engines immediately. The cost of the Basic Web
Marketing Package is $497.00."

I don't see that at the URL you provided. However, I did find that in
the Google cache:

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"This package includes going through your site and optimizing 5 pages
for the title, keywords, meta tag descriptions, and proper linking
strategies within your site on the other pages. We make sure your site
is submitted to the top internet search engines. The search engines we
submit to are Yahoo, Google, Inktomi (supplies results for MSN and AOL),
Open Directory Project (helps rankings in all search engines),
AllTheWeb.com, Alta Vista, Ask Jeeves and Teoma. These search engines
supply 95% of all internet searches. The other 5% are not worth the
effort. The cost of submitting to Inktomi is included. We are editors
for the Open Directory Project (dmoz.org) which helps to get our
submitted sites listed in one week instead of waiting up to 6 months.
Getting listed in the ODP has a very strong influence on all search
engines immediately. The cost of the Basic Web Marketing Package is
$497.00.

"Results: This package has produced 2-5 times the traffic to a website
and more in a few cases. The bottom line is that if you are not listed
in the search engines, people won't be able to find you. This marketing
action should be a minimum for any web site that wants traffic."

May I make an observation: just because someone claims on a website
they are a corrupt ODP editor doesn't mean they really are. Did it ever
occur to you they might be lying about this? I'd think if there are
corrupt ODP editors, they wouldn't broadcast this fact.
--
http://www.dextromethorphan.ws/
For information about the psychedelic drug DXM, including dangers.

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:56:08 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski"
<rfgdxm (AT) vivisectSPAMMERSmochamail (DOT) com> wrote:

May I make an observation: just because someone claims on a website
they are a corrupt ODP editor doesn't mean they really are. Did it ever
occur to you they might be lying about this? I'd think if there are
corrupt ODP editors, they wouldn't broadcast this fact.

Hi,

Also isn't it the case that ODP editors only have editing writes over
a few categories, so unless there are hundreds of them in all likely
hood they wouldn't be able to influence the speed of inclusion for
most sites?

BTW If the second listing (the one that's against scientology) under
Googles SERPs for Scientology could beat the top site with a bit of
optimization.

David
_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 31/08/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123...-optimization/

SEO wrote:

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:56:08 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski"
rfgdxm (AT) vivisectSPAMMERSmochamail (DOT) com> wrote:

May I make an observation: just because someone claims on a website
they are a corrupt ODP editor doesn't mean they really are. Did it
ever occur to you they might be lying about this? I'd think if there
are corrupt ODP editors, they wouldn't broadcast this fact.

Hi,

Also isn't it the case that ODP editors only have editing writes over
a few categories, so unless there are hundreds of them in all likely
hood they wouldn't be able to influence the speed of inclusion for
most sites?

True for most editors. However, there are well over 100 metas and
editalls who can edit all categories.
--
http://www.dextromethorphan.ws/
For information about the psychedelic drug DXM, including dangers.

ptsc wrote:

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:56:08 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski"
rfgdxm (AT) vivisectSPAMMERSmochamail (DOT) com> wrote:

Did it ever
occur to you they might be lying about this?

Yes. That's why this was the first line of my post:

"Note that the claims made by outflow.net may be false and
fraudulent, and
that they may in fact have no dmoz.org editors."

However, I pointed out that in fact most sites I checked which
included the "mini link farm" also had an entry on dmoz.org. This
isn't really clinching, since it seems unlikely they had an editor
slot in every "Regional" category, but it doesn't seem entirely out
of the question a company like this would
have scarfed up an editor slot in a search engine optimization
category.
The fact Scientology and Scientologists have been caught in the past
massively spamming the directory also makes it worth checking out.

A question here. How long ago did you send this to staff (AT) dmoz (DOT) org?
This whole thing looks very complex, and for the Powers That Be at the
ODP to investigate this may take some time. In particular if the case
were, as you suggest, multiple people involved with Scientology becoming
editors. Investigating something like that would be non-trivial.

One thing about what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that the
CoS is involved in shennanigans and abusing the ODP. However, if so then
why is this SEO company which you say is linked with the CoS openly
advertising they have dishonest ODP editors on staff? That paints a
bulls-eye for the Powers That Be at the ODP to aim at. No corrupt ODP
editor with half a clue would openly advertise this on a website.
--
http://www.dextromethorphan.ws/
For information about the psychedelic drug DXM, including dangers.

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 00:27:29 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski"
<rfgdxm (AT) vivisectSPAMMERSmochamail (DOT) com> wrote:

ptsc wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:56:08 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski"
rfgdxm (AT) vivisectSPAMMERSmochamail (DOT) com> wrote:

Did it ever
occur to you they might be lying about this?

Yes. That's why this was the first line of my post:

"Note that the claims made by outflow.net may be false and
fraudulent, and
that they may in fact have no dmoz.org editors."

However, I pointed out that in fact most sites I checked which
included the "mini link farm" also had an entry on dmoz.org. This
isn't really clinching, since it seems unlikely they had an editor
slot in every "Regional" category, but it doesn't seem entirely out
of the question a company like this would
have scarfed up an editor slot in a search engine optimization
category.
The fact Scientology and Scientologists have been caught in the past
massively spamming the directory also makes it worth checking out.

A question here. How long ago did you send this to staff (AT) dmoz (DOT) org?
This whole thing looks very complex, and for the Powers That Be at the
ODP to investigate this may take some time. In particular if the case
were, as you suggest, multiple people involved with Scientology becoming
editors. Investigating something like that would be non-trivial.

About a week ago, more to give them a heads-up than anything.

One thing about what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that the
CoS is involved in shennanigans and abusing the ODP.

Actually I'm outright stating that a company affiliated with Scientology is
explicitly stating and even advertising that they're abusing the ODP. The
question is whether they're doing that, or simply defrauding their customers.
(Although at around $500 a pop, it's possible they're doing both.)

However, if so then
why is this SEO company which you say is linked with the CoS openly
advertising they have dishonest ODP editors on staff? That paints a
bulls-eye for the Powers That Be at the ODP to aim at. No corrupt ODP
editor with half a clue would openly advertise this on a website.

They're Scientologists. I certainly wouldn't accuse them of hoarding clues.
--
Home of the Buttersquash Conspiracy http://buttersquash.net

ptsc, you listed a set of fairly random websites that would likely get
in the directory at any time for legitmate reasons. If there's a giant
Scientology SEO exercise going on, then it's not the ODP's concern, as
long as the listed sites meet the ODP's criteria.

Actually I'm outright stating that a company affiliated with Scientology is
explicitly stating and even advertising that they're abusing the ODP. The
question is whether they're doing that, or simply defrauding their customers.
(Although at around $500 a pop, it's possible they're doing both.)

Well, yes that is interesting. Of course the implication is that this
is abuse by a meta or editall if true. However, even a
non-meta/editall editor has the ability to speed up the submission
process even if just by helping find the correct category for
submission and writing a really good description.

Funnily enough that claim has gone from their website, but it's still
in the Google cache -
http://216.239.51.104/search?sourcei...arket ing.htm
- it's not at the Wayback Machine though which has an older copy.

Outflow.net seem to be pretty up front about their staff and I can't
find any connection at all between them and the Open Directory other
than the webmarketing.htm page.

To me I can't see anything at all apart from some SEO going on and a
now-dropped claim about ODP listings.

On 4 Sep 2003 04:07:35 -0700, dynamoo (AT) spamcop (DOT) net (Conrad Longmore) wrote:

ptsc, you listed a set of fairly random websites that would likely get
in the directory at any time for legitmate reasons.

There was nothing "random" about my choice of websites. They all contained a
"mini link farm" consisting of several dozen links to Scientology sites. This
is the Google search that pops them up. You will, if you bother looking, see
that they are identical minus style sheets. It is the parent sites which,
individually, are also on dmoz.org.

http://tinyurl.com/j2ow

If there's a giant
Scientology SEO exercise going on, then it's not the ODP's concern, as
long as the listed sites meet the ODP's criteria.

So you don't think this advertisement indicates an intent to abuse the ODP?


http://www.outflow.net/WebMarketing.htm
"We are editors for the Open Directory Project (dmoz.org) which helps to get our
submitted sites listed in one week instead of waiting up to 6 months. Getting
listed in the ODP has a very strong influence on all search engines
immediately. The cost of the Basic Web Marketing Package is $497.00."

Actually I'm outright stating that a company affiliated with Scientology is
explicitly stating and even advertising that they're abusing the ODP. The
question is whether they're doing that, or simply defrauding their customers.
(Although at around $500 a pop, it's possible they're doing both.)

Well, yes that is interesting. Of course the implication is that this
is abuse by a meta or editall if true. However, even a

Right. If it's true. It may not be true, or may not be true any more. It
seems fairly likely anyone who would so blatantly abuse the system would abuse
it in other ways and may have already been kicked off. It is also entirely
possible it's an outright lie.

non-meta/editall editor has the ability to speed up the submission
process even if just by helping find the correct category for
submission and writing a really good description.

Funnily enough that claim has gone from their website, but it's still
in the Google cache -
http://216.239.51.104/search?sourcei...arket ing.htm
- it's not at the Wayback Machine though which has an older copy.

This would indicate hurriedly running away from the rather alarming claim.

Outflow.net seem to be pretty up front about their staff and I can't
find any connection at all between them and the Open Directory other
than the webmarketing.htm page.

Well, obviously not. Do you think they're going to list any editors they have
by their edit name and email address so they'll be easier to kick off? You have
a touching faith in spammers.

To me I can't see anything at all apart from some SEO going on and a
now-dropped claim about ODP listings.

It was most certainly not dropped at the time I mentioned it. Nor does merely
deleting it from the webpage indicate that they've stopped doing it, only that
they've stopped advertising it so blatantly. Immediately deleting it from their
webpage only when it is noticed and reported to the ODP does NOT strike me as
the act of someone erring innocently. Does it strike you as upfront and
forthright? If so, you have an odd way of looking at things.
--
Home of the Buttersquash Conspiracy http://buttersquash.net

ptsc wrote:

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 00:27:29 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski"
rfgdxm (AT) vivisectSPAMMERSmochamail (DOT) com> wrote:

A question here. How long ago did you send this to staff (AT) dmoz (DOT) org?
This whole thing looks very complex, and for the Powers That Be at
the ODP to investigate this may take some time. In particular if the
case were, as you suggest, multiple people involved with Scientology
becoming editors. Investigating something like that would be
non-trivial.

About a week ago, more to give them a heads-up than anything.

One thing you may not be aware of. AFAIK ODP staff happens to be all
of 2 people. And, one of them is just a computer techie. This means one
person is doing all the other staff functions. It is also quite possible
that there are other cases of alleged editor abuse that came in just
before yours. If nothing has happened in a week, this may just be due to
there not being enough time to check out your allegations. And,
investigating this may take some time, and not be so easy. This company
just advertised they were corrupt ODP editors. They didn't say exactly
who they were. If there is any truth to this, it may take staff time
investigating the matter and figuring out what is what, and who is
involved.

One thing about what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that
the CoS is involved in shennanigans and abusing the ODP.

Actually I'm outright stating that a company affiliated with
Scientology is explicitly stating and even advertising that they're
abusing the ODP. The question is whether they're doing that, or
simply defrauding their customers. (Although at around $500 a pop,
it's possible they're doing both.)

However, if so then
why is this SEO company which you say is linked with the CoS openly
advertising they have dishonest ODP editors on staff? That paints a
bulls-eye for the Powers That Be at the ODP to aim at. No corrupt ODP
editor with half a clue would openly advertise this on a website.

They're Scientologists. I certainly wouldn't accuse them of hoarding
clues.

If this isn't just a scam company ripping off people, then I have
little doubt ODP staff will be able to uncover any editors that are
affiliated with them.
--
http://www.dextromethorphan.ws/
For information about the psychedelic drug DXM, including dangers.

One other comment to the original poster, and to others reading here.
Abuse can also be reported at:

http://inelegant.org/report-abuse/

This is run by a group of meta editors, who also handle abuse
complaints.
--
http://www.dextromethorphan.ws/
For information about the psychedelic drug DXM, including dangers.