Disability friendly or unfair cloaking?

Further to my earlier post " Is this site breaking Search Engine rules"
about possible breaking of Google AUP by www.morleyharps.co.uk , I have now
pointed out to them the error of their ways and they have amended their
hidden text to:

<div id="pagedescription" title="Copy for Lynx Browsers / Screen Readers">

<p>A family business, Clive Morley Harps has been making harps since
1817.<br /><br />Formerly based in London's elegant South
Kensington, Clive Morley Harps still makes harps and sells them
together with harp strings, harp accessories and harp sheet music from
its showroom and studio in Lechlade, Gloucestershire.<br /><br />In
addition, Clive Morley Harps offers the harpist long or short term harp
rental services on a wide range of harps available in stock. Renting a
harp is ideal for first time musicians or for use at harp concerts and harp
recitals.<br /><br />For first time harpists (and those just
learning the ropes - or rather the strings!), harp classes
are also available from experienced harps teachers at Clive Morley
Harps' studio in Lechlade, Gloucestershire.<br /><br />Both
Morley Workshop harps and other manufacturer's harps are available to
buy online or by contacting Clive Morley Harps at their showroom and studio
in Lechlade, Gloucestershire. Types of harps include: folks
harps; electro folk harps; lap harps; travle harps; busking
harps; scottish folk harps; modern folks harps; therapy
harps; concert harps; dusty strings harps; morley workshop
harps; antique harps; pedal harps; concert pedal harps;
pure electro pedal harps; midi harps. Also sold are harp kits,
for the DIY harpist.<br /><br />Best quality harp strings can be bought
by the note or octave online in the Clive Morley Harps shop - harps
strings include: concert harps strings; gothic harp strings;
grecian harps strings; modern concert harps strings; gut harp
strings; synthetic gut harp strings; nylon harps strings; folk
harps strings; polished nylon harp strings elysian gut harp
strings; elysian nylon harp strings; bow brand gut harp
strings.<br /><br />Harp accessories available to buy online
include: harp stools; harp music stands; harp trollies;
harp covers; harp twin tape pickups; electro harp pickups.<br
/><br />Finally, Clive Morley Harps offer sheet music for harps whether
for pleasure or for study, with exam pieces and study books available
to buy online.</p>

</div>

Two questions,

Firstly, is putting text specifically for screen readers and the Lynx
browser a way of getting round the AUP or is it an established way of being
disability friendly, or both!

Secondly, what's the reason for using characters such as ";" in this
hidden text instead of normal HTML code?

Thanks,

Nathan

Nathan Demsky wrote:

Further to my earlier post " Is this site breaking Search Engine rules"
about possible breaking of Google AUP by www.morleyharps.co.uk , I have now
pointed out to them the error of their ways and they have amended their
hidden text to:

div id="pagedescription" title="Copy for Lynx Browsers / Screen Readers"

p>A family business, Clive Morley Harps has been making harps since
1817.<br /><br />Formerly based in London's elegant South
Kensington, Clive Morley Harps still makes harps and sells them
together with harp strings, harp accessories and harp sheet music from
its showroom and studio in Lechlade, Gloucestershire.<br /><br />In
addition, Clive Morley Harps offers the harpist long or short term harp
rental services on a wide range of harps available in stock. Renting a
harp is ideal for first time musicians or for use at harp concerts and harp
recitals.<br /><br />For first time harpists (and those just
learning the ropes - or rather the strings!), harp classes
are also available from experienced harps teachers at Clive Morley
Harps' studio in Lechlade, Gloucestershire.<br /><br />Both
Morley Workshop harps and other manufacturer's harps are available to
buy online or by contacting Clive Morley Harps at their showroom and studio
in Lechlade, Gloucestershire. Types of harps include: folks
harps; electro folk harps; lap harps; travle harps; busking
harps; scottish folk harps; modern folks harps; therapy
harps; concert harps; dusty strings harps; morley workshop
harps; antique harps; pedal harps; concert pedal harps;
pure electro pedal harps; midi harps. Also sold are harp kits,
for the DIY harpist.<br /><br />Best quality harp strings can be bought
by the note or octave online in the Clive Morley Harps shop - harps
strings include: concert harps strings; gothic harp strings;
grecian harps strings; modern concert harps strings; gut harp
strings; synthetic gut harp strings; nylon harps strings; folk
harps strings; polished nylon harp strings elysian gut harp
strings; elysian nylon harp strings; bow brand gut harp
strings.<br /><br />Harp accessories available to buy online
include: harp stools; harp music stands; harp trollies;
harp covers; harp twin tape pickups; electro harp pickups.<br
/><br />Finally, Clive Morley Harps offer sheet music for harps whether
for pleasure or for study, with exam pieces and study books available
to buy online.</p

/div

Two questions,

Firstly, is putting text specifically for screen readers and the Lynx
browser a way of getting round the AUP or is it an established way of being
disability friendly, or both!

Secondly, what's the reason for using characters such as ";" in this
hidden text instead of normal HTML code?

Thanks,

Nathan

Interesting point. it bears resemblance to my long standing gripe of my
competitor inspirals .co.uk who have a flash site but use a framed site
to hide 100's of pages of content. Though clever linking and use of
<noframes> they keep referring flash enabled visitors back to the flash
based shop... its most annoying.

on coolpink .co.uk they use a similar techniques to hide text thats
only available when printed... as these sites have been around for ages
and reported for using such techniques and are still in the listing
then its my guess that google doesn't have a problem with this
technique.

Buy silver jewellery this christmas from www.iosilver.co.uk the silver
jewellery specialists.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:33:36 +0000, Nathan Demsky
<nathan (AT) THATSMYSECRET (DOT) invalid> wrote:

Further to my earlier post " Is this site breaking Search Engine rules"
about possible breaking of Google AUP by www.morleyharps.co.uk , I have now
pointed out to them the error of their ways and they have amended their
hidden text to:

div id="pagedescription" title="Copy for Lynx Browsers / Screen Readers"

p>A family business, Clive Morley Harps has been making harps since
1817.<br /><br />Formerly based in London's elegant South
Kensington, Clive Morley Harps still makes harps and sells them
together with harp strings, harp accessories and harp sheet music from
its showroom and studio in Lechlade, Gloucestershire.<br /><br />In
addition, Clive Morley Harps offers the harpist long or short term harp
rental services on a wide range of harps available in stock. Renting a
harp is ideal for first time musicians or for use at harp concerts and harp
recitals.<br /><br />For first time harpists (and those just
learning the ropes - or rather the strings!), harp classes
are also available from experienced harps teachers at Clive Morley
Harps' studio in Lechlade, Gloucestershire.<br /><br />Both
Morley Workshop harps and other manufacturer's harps are available to
buy online or by contacting Clive Morley Harps at their showroom and studio
in Lechlade, Gloucestershire. Types of harps include: folks
harps; electro folk harps; lap harps; travle harps; busking
harps; scottish folk harps; modern folks harps; therapy
harps; concert harps; dusty strings harps; morley workshop
harps; antique harps; pedal harps; concert pedal harps;
pure electro pedal harps; midi harps. Also sold are harp kits,
for the DIY harpist.<br /><br />Best quality harp strings can be bought
by the note or octave online in the Clive Morley Harps shop - harps
strings include: concert harps strings; gothic harp strings;
grecian harps strings; modern concert harps strings; gut harp
strings; synthetic gut harp strings; nylon harps strings; folk
harps strings; polished nylon harp strings elysian gut harp
strings; elysian nylon harp strings; bow brand gut harp
strings.<br /><br />Harp accessories available to buy online
include: harp stools; harp music stands; harp trollies;
harp covers; harp twin tape pickups; electro harp pickups.<br
/><br />Finally, Clive Morley Harps offer sheet music for harps whether
for pleasure or for study, with exam pieces and study books available
to buy online.</p

/div

Two questions,

Firstly, is putting text specifically for screen readers and the Lynx
browser a way of getting round the AUP or is it an established way of being
disability friendly, or both!

I'd say it was spam.

Secondly, what's the reason for using characters such as ";" in this
hidden text instead of normal HTML code?

I'd say they ran it through html tidy first and it did that because it
likes to. It would be responding to instruction about the charset from
somewhere.

BB
--
http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-sitemap.htm
http://www.here-be-posters.co.uk/art-prints-sitemap.htm
http://www.here-be-posters.co.uk/lithographs.htm

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:04:31 GMT, Big Bill <bill (AT) kruse (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

I'd say they ran it through html tidy first and it did that because it
likes to. It would be responding to instruction about the charset from
somewhere.

I'd say that they used MS word and copy and pasted the text.
plh
Paul

--
Handmade jewelry, Texas :
http://www.houstoncrafts.com/pearl/necklace-301.html
http://www.houstoncrafts.com/beaded/bracelet-404.html
http://www.houstoncrafts.com/pearl/earrings-106.html

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Nathan Demsky <nathan (AT) THATSMYSECRET (DOT) invalid> wrote:

Secondly, what's the reason for using characters such as ";" in
this hidden text instead of normal HTML code?

39 = '
44 = ,
46 = .
59 = ;

Probably just "escaped" all interpunction. For a well-written bot this
doesn't matter, each &dd; is turned into the normal character before
processing the content. In short, it's not some weird trick.

--
John Need help with SEO? Get started with a SEO report of your site:

--> http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:24:51 +0000, Paul B
<customerservices (AT) houstoncrafts (DOT) com> wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:04:31 GMT, Big Bill <bill (AT) kruse (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

I'd say they ran it through html tidy first and it did that because it
likes to. It would be responding to instruction about the charset from
somewhere.

I'd say that they used MS word and copy and pasted the text.
plh
Paul

I really wouldn't think so, it's way too clean to have been generated
by Word.

BB
--
http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-sitemap.htm
http://www.here-be-posters.co.uk/art-prints-sitemap.htm
http://www.here-be-posters.co.uk/lithographs.htm

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:12:31 GMT, Big Bill <bill (AT) kruse (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:24:51 +0000, Paul B
customerservices (AT) houstoncrafts (DOT) com> wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:04:31 GMT, Big Bill <bill (AT) kruse (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

I'd say they ran it through html tidy first and it did that because it
likes to. It would be responding to instruction about the charset from
somewhere.

I'd say that they used MS word and copy and pasted the text.
plh
Paul

I really wouldn't think so, it's way too clean to have been generated
by Word.

BB

I meant the text, not the coding.

--
Handmade jewelry, Texas :
http://www.houstoncrafts.com/pearl/necklace-301.html
http://www.houstoncrafts.com/beaded/bracelet-404.html
http://www.houstoncrafts.com/pearl/earrings-106.html

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

In message <8i0om25mrskkipe6tm89l3n09ej9gq1nmt (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, Nathan Demsky
<nathan (AT) THATSMYSECRET (DOT) invalid> writes

Further to my earlier post " Is this site breaking Search Engine rules"
about possible breaking of Google AUP by www.morleyharps.co.uk , I have
now pointed out to them the error of their ways and they have amended
their hidden text to:

This site complies W3C WCAG P1 W3C WCAG P2 and is very screen reader
friendly for up to date Screen Readers. However, there are quite a few
blind surfers who use Lynx Browsers with a *DOS Screen Reader.

Also more impartially to Morley Harps a lot of blind folk play the harp
so it is in there interest to make it accessible and comply with the
law.

Now the interesting bit if G penalises them, would M have a case in law
because they are complying to UK and US law on accessible sites and G
would be forcing WD to break to law or get penalised interesting.




Barrie,

* a lot of disabled folk don't work so they can't afford the latest
Screen Readers which is £750.00 UK pounds or about $1461.00

--
BH

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:41:22 +0000, BH <tower (AT) tower-forte (DOT) demon.co.uk>
wrote:

| In message <8i0om25mrskkipe6tm89l3n09ej9gq1nmt (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, Nathan Demsky
| <nathan (AT) THATSMYSECRET (DOT) invalid> writes
|
| >Further to my earlier post " Is this site breaking Search Engine
rules"
| >about possible breaking of Google AUP by www.morleyharps.co.uk , I
have
| >now pointed out to them the error of their ways and they have amended
| >their hidden text to:
|
| This site complies W3C WCAG P1 W3C WCAG P2 and is very screen reader
| friendly for up to date Screen Readers. However, there are quite a
few
| blind surfers who use Lynx Browsers with a *DOS Screen Reader.
|
| Also more impartially to Morley Harps a lot of blind folk play the harp
| so it is in there interest to make it accessible and comply with the
| law.
|
| Now the interesting bit if G penalises them, would M have a case in law
| because they are complying to UK and US law on accessible sites and G
| would be forcing WD to break to law or get penalised interesting.

Very interesting point. I guess their approach strengthens the idea that an
accessible site is also a SE friendy site.

So providing a site owner put a comment in his hidden text, packed with
keywords, saying it's to aid accessibility, then Google is unlikely to act
against them, as Google may be acting in a discriminatory way.

So there, boys and girls. is todays topical technique for boosting your SE
position whilst not breaking Google's AUP.

Thanks,

Nathan

In message <1iotm2huf49igkuaog7d9o7ju2bvol59e1 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, Nathan Demsky
<nathan (AT) THATSMYSECRET (DOT) invalid> writes

So providing a site owner put a comment in his hidden text, packed with
keywords, saying it's to aid accessibility, then Google is unlikely to
act against them, as Google may be acting in a discriminatory way.

You can try your luck, me I stick with the rules Because G can and
would argue the case that the site is not complying with all W3C WCAG
P1 W3C WCAG P2 W3C WCAG P3 with the hidden text.

Barrie,


--
BH