Can some one give me a tip.... (re Google rank)

Big Bill wrote:

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 00:14:34 +0100, Paul
lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 7 Aug 2006 15:31:24 -0700, "canadafred" <canadian_web (AT) hotmail (DOT) com
wrote:


Paul wrote:

snip

et tu brute

eh ?

I have spent three days sifting through various twists of my words on
three Internet fronts simultaneously including here.

I understand people want me to just go away.

No idea Fred. Just got back. Still catching up.
Lay off smoking pike-hash and be less paranoid.

My views regarding PR and its place in the search engine ranking
procedures have changed radically in the last two or three months. It
is a broken system that I no longer support manipulating because I see
the damage that it is doing to my neighbours and their web sites.

Its not just you. There are many sites affected recently. You don't
have to manipulate anything, just make a good website and get links to
it.

As a result of living in reality that the SERPs are a manipulated joke,

Only manipulated by spammers and blackhatters.

I no longer am a follower of the standard SEO trends.

You're not going over to the Dark Side are you Fred ?
Feel The Force Fred. May the Force be with you <G

I create resistance every time I write now. I don't even do it intentionally
sometimes either.

Its the drugs fred.
Either that or you're sniffing too many dead fish.

Mmmmm... I'd go for the drugs, myself!

.... maybe so. It just seems like everytime I open my mouth I get

slam-based for something I say. I was trying to open up ideas with John
the Perl programmer about 1+1=2 believe it or not. I found a way to
make it 4. I call it Double Troubled.test phase. I watched a site use
it and boom up ten / twelve good ranks and sustains it still.

Oh. So if you are just getting back and are friendly then you missed my
last lesson in linquistics. Leprochauns.test phase. These are powerful
lil' sunsabitches' these leprochauns. I've seen them in action. Jump 4
or 5 spots in a good hard contest, I'm hoping.

I am taking a shit-kicking at Daniweb. It's 100% my fault there. I've
posted some of the most well-thought out critism about my SEO
techniques positions from this week on here
http://canadian-web-site-promotion.b...riticized.html
( skip the rhetoric at the beginning it may be offensive to some ), I
figured shit, if these people care enough to send me a nasty remark
that's worthy of some marketing isn't it, they steal my words non-stop
maybe it is time for a little grey to come out in this aging SEO fart.
I could show you people some real dark shades of grey. See, most forget
I am a marketer. SEOs were supposed be that too, originally anyways.
There is skill to enticing the visitor to make the all important
contact with the business web site owner. PayPal buttons are good in
the fly-by night Internet world but they don't work very well on many
traditional business web sites.

Anyone can try their luck manipulating like the best of them if they
want to. It requires no skill really, endurance perhaps and many
answered prayers. This linking faction is not part of the SEO I know.

I have been showing up at Westmasterworld too, looking for a safe
haven, not sure yet.

Search engine optimizers; I don't know what they are nowadays. A
warehouse of linking strategists can be an Expert Internet Marketing
Service. A hanger of SEM budget babysitter are International SEO Gurus,
affiliate marketers can be Search Engine Masters and more. It is even
hard for me to know. My neighbours see a happy smiley people pleasin'
face
http://canadian-web-site-promotion.b...sing-face.html
and a white mansion and think "Wow, the Internet dream is here".

Maybe it is different in other homeland but in mine we are raised on
trust. Sure, individually one can be as untrustworthy as any crooks but
our bases itself on fair play and ethical business practices. We are
simply not used to being taken advantage of in business practices. When
we see a trustworthy presentation we are compelled to buy because we
enjoy feeling safe and well serviced.

Our business web sites need SEO in order to compete in the
international waters. It suffices to say that there is a problem with
awareness in Canada regarding our industry, SEO. It is probably wrong
of me to assume that anyone else cares. But I can never be silenced for
speaking my heart and fighting for what I believe is fair. I care. I
sincerely do.

So many SEOs think my motives purely selfish.

There is little art in SEO left. It is all mechanical. I fight against
the fluff generating machine everyday. My clients web sites must fight
the fluff too. Fight the fluff with bigger fluff is today's SES motto.
Let the search engines deal with it.

People with nice web sites cannot be found in the natural results
because they fail to consider an SEO aspect in the design phase. This
is one of the most common problems that people approach me with. They
need help. Otherwise they are doomed to search engine advertising or
must seek outside the Intenet altogether for their web site promotion.
Such a pity. Often the web site development company has their "claws"
into the client, sucking him dry of budget; a clutch so strong the
client cannot completely shake off. In a case like this, a swave and
competent SEO should be able to slide between the parties, fix the
problem and return the project back to the developer with instruction
on how to create and introduce new content. Surgery. In, fix, instruct,
out. That's it. That's all.
--
Internet Marketing Service
http://www.rezultz-web-site-promotion.com/

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 01:50:45 +0200, "Stacey"
<Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

"Paul" <lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f2ifd2ppaujp9lg3cguun6jsv2s2ukeis4 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On 7 Aug 2006 15:31:24 -0700, "canadafred" <canadian_web (AT) hotmail (DOT) com
wrote:
snip

I create resistance every time I write now. I don't even do it
intentionally
sometimes either.

Its the drugs fred.
Either that or you're sniffing too many dead fish.

Hi Stacey.

Paul he thought I was trying to ruin his credibility or I was afraid of him
or something just a couple of days ago. If you disagree with him he gets
like this. It is called resistance or attacks. :-) He is totally paranoid
and if he wants to have a discussion then have one. Don't think it is an
attack because someone disagrees.

Ah. so thats what it is. All clear now

Stacey

plh

Paul

--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"canadafred" <canadian_web (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

... maybe so. It just seems like everytime I open my mouth I get
slam-based for something I say. I was trying to open up ideas with
John the Perl programmer about 1+1=2 believe it or not.

I missed that one.

Any of your sites in the AOL set btw?

--
John Freelance Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Firefox Keywords: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/keymarks-explained.html

On 7 Aug 2006 17:50:54 -0700, "canadafred" <canadian_web (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>
wrote:

Big Bill wrote:
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 00:14:34 +0100, Paul
lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 7 Aug 2006 15:31:24 -0700, "canadafred" <canadian_web (AT) hotmail (DOT) com
wrote:


Paul wrote:

snip

et tu brute

eh ?

I have spent three days sifting through various twists of my words on
three Internet fronts simultaneously including here.

I understand people want me to just go away.

No idea Fred. Just got back. Still catching up.
Lay off smoking pike-hash and be less paranoid.

My views regarding PR and its place in the search engine ranking
procedures have changed radically in the last two or three months. It
is a broken system that I no longer support manipulating because I see
the damage that it is doing to my neighbours and their web sites.

Its not just you. There are many sites affected recently. You don't
have to manipulate anything, just make a good website and get links to
it.

As a result of living in reality that the SERPs are a manipulated joke,

Only manipulated by spammers and blackhatters.

I no longer am a follower of the standard SEO trends.

You're not going over to the Dark Side are you Fred ?
Feel The Force Fred. May the Force be with you <G

I create resistance every time I write now. I don't even do it intentionally
sometimes either.

Its the drugs fred.
Either that or you're sniffing too many dead fish.

Mmmmm... I'd go for the drugs, myself!

... maybe so. It just seems like everytime I open my mouth I get
slam-based for something I say.

To many folk on this group are here solely for the sake of arguing
with the others. About anything. Something else I'm getting
increasingly fed up with.

I was trying to open up ideas with John
the Perl programmer about 1+1=2 believe it or not. I found a way to
make it 4. I call it Double Troubled.test phase. I watched a site use
it and boom up ten / twelve good ranks and sustains it still.

Oh. So if you are just getting back and are friendly then you missed my
last lesson in linquistics. Leprochauns.test phase. These are powerful
lil' sunsabitches' these leprochauns. I've seen them in action. Jump 4
or 5 spots in a good hard contest, I'm hoping.

I am taking a shit-kicking at Daniweb. It's 100% my fault there.

Surprise!

I've
posted some of the most well-thought out critism about my SEO
techniques positions from this week on here
http://canadian-web-site-promotion.b...riticized.html
( skip the rhetoric at the beginning it may be offensive to some ), I
figured shit, if these people care enough to send me a nasty remark
that's worthy of some marketing isn't it, they steal my words non-stop
maybe it is time for a little grey to come out in this aging SEO fart.
I could show you people some real dark shades of grey. See, most forget
I am a marketer. SEOs were supposed be that too, originally anyways.

According to some it's their principal function.

There is skill to enticing the visitor to make the all important
contact with the business web site owner. PayPal buttons are good in
the fly-by night Internet world but they don't work very well on many
traditional business web sites.

Anyone can try their luck manipulating like the best of them if they
want to. It requires no skill really, endurance perhaps and many
answered prayers. This linking faction is not part of the SEO I know.

I have been showing up at Westmasterworld too, looking for a safe
haven, not sure yet.

Too heavy for me over there. I skip round the forums from time to time
but they seem to be mostly populated by folk who live their lives on
forums and have none outside them.

Search engine optimizers; I don't know what they are nowadays. A
warehouse of linking strategists can be an Expert Internet Marketing
Service. A hanger of SEM budget babysitter are International SEO Gurus,
affiliate marketers can be Search Engine Masters and more. It is even
hard for me to know. My neighbours see a happy smiley people pleasin'
face
http://canadian-web-site-promotion.b...sing-face.html
and a white mansion and think "Wow, the Internet dream is here".

I'm not even going to look.

Maybe it is different in other homeland but in mine we are raised on
trust. Sure, individually one can be as untrustworthy as any crooks but
our bases itself on fair play and ethical business practices.

Thing is where you are, Fred, it's hard physically and everybody
depends on their neighbour for survival. Here you shit on your
neighbour as a matter of course - there'll always be another one along
in a minute. The fewer people there are around, the more they tend to
value each other.

We are
simply not used to being taken advantage of in business practices. When
we see a trustworthy presentation we are compelled to buy because we
enjoy feeling safe and well serviced.

Our business web sites need SEO in order to compete in the
international waters. It suffices to say that there is a problem with
awareness in Canada regarding our industry, SEO. It is probably wrong
of me to assume that anyone else cares. But I can never be silenced for
speaking my heart and fighting for what I believe is fair. I care. I
sincerely do.

So many SEOs think my motives purely selfish.

There is little art in SEO left. It is all mechanical. I fight against
the fluff generating machine everyday. My clients web sites must fight
the fluff too. Fight the fluff with bigger fluff is today's SES motto.
Let the search engines deal with it.

People with nice web sites cannot be found in the natural results
because they fail to consider an SEO aspect in the design phase. This
is one of the most common problems that people approach me with. They
need help. Otherwise they are doomed to search engine advertising or
must seek outside the Intenet altogether for their web site promotion.

Which is ironic, because if you truly want the very latest thing, you
won't find about it through Google, the algo excludes that. When it's
tried and tested and verified, then Google feel safe promoting it.
Till then you won't hear about it.

Such a pity. Often the web site development company has their "claws"
into the client, sucking him dry of budget; a clutch so strong the
client cannot completely shake off. In a case like this, a swave

Ahem. Swave?

BB
--
http://www.here-be-posters.co.uk/mar...e-pictures.htm
http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-maintenance.htm
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/artis...una-glass.html

Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

To many folk on this group are here solely for the sake of arguing
with the others.

If we all agreed here constantly then wouldn't we be merely sheeps, and
learn nothing? I learn often the most from arguments :-D. The simplest
way to stop one if you're directly involved is by skipping the thread :-
D. But somehow both sides seem to be focussed on winning, despite
stating the contrary ;-)

Also, notice that if one (or more) people that belong to the "too many
folk" group leave a group that there is always someone else that takes
his/her place.

There was a time I thought I was causing a lot of argueing in one group,
so I left it for months. When I started lurking the group I saw the same
old shit going on without me even being there :-D.

About anything. Something else I'm getting
increasingly fed up with.

Then its time to stop with Usenet, or this group for some time.

Ask yourself:

- how much does it cost you every day in time
- what do you get from it

There are plenty of other places for light talk where argueing rarely
happens (I have my own message board just for that :-D). This is a
technical group, and quite some people are professionally involved in
search engines, and hence show their skills, and bump into each other.

Anyway, if you don't feel comfortable with a group, take a (short) break
from it. I have learned to do it more easily, and more often :-D.

Also: write on your site -> benefits *you*
write on Usenet -> spread out content.

[ forums ]

Too heavy for me over there. I skip round the forums from time to time
but they seem to be mostly populated by folk who live their lives on
forums and have none outside them.

I have heard that about me + Usenet a lot :-D. But I don't hang in front
of the tube for 4 hrs/day, or play d&d games, etc.

[I snipped attr canadafred away, apologies:]

Maybe it is different in other homeland but in mine we are raised on
trust. Sure, individually one can be as untrustworthy as any crooks
but our bases itself on fair play and ethical business practices.

Thing is where you are, Fred, it's hard physically and everybody
depends on their neighbour for survival. Here you shit on your
neighbour as a matter of course - there'll always be another one along
in a minute. The fewer people there are around, the more they tend to
value each other.

Very true. I love small communities where everybody knows each other and
is friendly. Last week we visited a small city in Guatemala. In the
city, nobody greets each other, we walked a bit out of the city, and
suddenly people started to greet us. Makes one feel warmer (ha ha ha,
under the burning sun, even the rubber trees were sweating) and more
connected :-D

People with nice web sites cannot be found in the natural results
because they fail to consider an SEO aspect in the design phase. This
is one of the most common problems that people approach me with. They
need help. Otherwise they are doomed to search engine advertising or
must seek outside the Intenet altogether for their web site promotion.

Which is ironic,

Yup. Add to that that blogs just copy-pasting a snippet, adding a link,
leeching an image get shitloads of traffic. It's a weird world, lets
hope some things are going to change :-D.

because if you truly want the very latest thing, you
won't find about it through Google, the algo excludes that. When it's
tried and tested and verified, then Google feel safe promoting it.
Till then you won't hear about it.

Such a pity. Often the web site development company has their "claws"
into the client, sucking him dry of budget; a clutch so strong the
client cannot completely shake off. In a case like this, a swave

Ahem. Swave?

Swave

[a] a sharp piece of metal, normally used to cut of claws of predators.

--
John Freelance Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Installing and configuring Apache on Windows XP (virtual hosting):
http://johnbokma.com/windows/apache-...-hosts-xp.html

On 8 Aug 2006 07:48:25 GMT, John Bokma <john (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote:

Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

To many folk on this group are here solely for the sake of arguing
with the others.

If we all agreed here constantly then wouldn't we be merely sheeps, and
learn nothing? I learn often the most from arguments :-D. The simplest
way to stop one if you're directly involved is by skipping the thread :-

The ones you're in, I do!

D. But somehow both sides seem to be focussed on winning, despite
stating the contrary ;-)

Also, notice that if one (or more) people that belong to the "too many
folk" group leave a group that there is always someone else that takes
his/her place.

There was a time I thought I was causing a lot of argueing in one group,
so I left it for months. When I started lurking the group I saw the same
old shit going on without me even being there :-D.

About anything. Something else I'm getting
increasingly fed up with.

Then its time to stop with Usenet, or this group for some time.

Ask yourself:

- how much does it cost you every day in time
- what do you get from it

There are plenty of other places for light talk where argueing rarely
happens (I have my own message board just for that :-D). This is a
technical group, and quite some people are professionally involved in
search engines, and hence show their skills, and bump into each other.

Actually. most people aren't.

Anyway, if you don't feel comfortable with a group, take a (short) break
from it. I have learned to do it more easily, and more often :-D.

Also: write on your site -> benefits *you*
write on Usenet -> spread out content.

[ forums ]
Too heavy for me over there. I skip round the forums from time to time
but they seem to be mostly populated by folk who live their lives on
forums and have none outside them.

I have heard that about me + Usenet a lot :-D. But I don't hang in front
of the tube for 4 hrs/day, or play d&d games, etc.

[I snipped attr canadafred away, apologies:]

Maybe it is different in other homeland but in mine we are raised on
trust. Sure, individually one can be as untrustworthy as any crooks
but our bases itself on fair play and ethical business practices.

Thing is where you are, Fred, it's hard physically and everybody
depends on their neighbour for survival. Here you shit on your
neighbour as a matter of course - there'll always be another one along
in a minute. The fewer people there are around, the more they tend to
value each other.

Very true. I love small communities where everybody knows each other and
is friendly. Last week we visited a small city in Guatemala. In the
city, nobody greets each other, we walked a bit out of the city, and
suddenly people started to greet us. Makes one feel warmer (ha ha ha,
under the burning sun, even the rubber trees were sweating) and more
connected :-D

People with nice web sites cannot be found in the natural results
because they fail to consider an SEO aspect in the design phase. This
is one of the most common problems that people approach me with. They
need help. Otherwise they are doomed to search engine advertising or
must seek outside the Intenet altogether for their web site promotion.

Which is ironic,

Yup. Add to that that blogs just copy-pasting a snippet, adding a link,
leeching an image get shitloads of traffic. It's a weird world, lets
hope some things are going to change :-D.

because if you truly want the very latest thing, you
won't find about it through Google, the algo excludes that. When it's
tried and tested and verified, then Google feel safe promoting it.
Till then you won't hear about it.

Such a pity. Often the web site development company has their "claws"
into the client, sucking him dry of budget; a clutch so strong the
client cannot completely shake off. In a case like this, a swave

Ahem. Swave?

Swave

[a] a sharp piece of metal, normally used to cut of claws of predators.

Humph.

BB
--
http://www.here-be-posters.co.uk/mar...e-pictures.htm
http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-maintenance.htm
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/artis...una-glass.html

"John Bokma" <john (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote

Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

To many folk on this group are here solely for the sake of arguing
with the others.

If we all agreed here constantly then wouldn't we be merely sheeps, and
learn nothing? I learn often the most from arguments :-D. The simplest
way to stop one if you're directly involved is by skipping the thread :-
D. But somehow both sides seem to be focused on winning, despite
stating the contrary ;-)

I agree with you John.:-) I have learned also from our arguments. :-) I also
enjoyed some of our arguments.:-)

Also, notice that if one (or more) people that belong to the "too many
folk" group leave a group that there is always someone else that takes
his/her place.

True or they come back, after a few years.

<snip>

There are plenty of other places for light talk where argueing rarely
happens (I have my own message board just for that :-D). This is a
technical group, and quite some people are professionally involved in
search engines, and hence show their skills, and bump into each other.

This is true. One has to also remember that people don't actually know
people here, unless they get to know them without the NG. People can read
the same threads and see different meanings, like the person wasn't
attacking. Most people on the Usenet feel that when someone disagrees with a
person that it is an attack. Some are though, but most aren't. If someone
wants to take a strong stance on certain things that some disagree with then
there will be arguments.

<snip>

Maybe it is different in other homeland but in mine we are raised on
trust. Sure, individually one can be as untrustworthy as any crooks
but our bases itself on fair play and ethical business practices.

Trust is common in Canada? I mean in a major city or something there isn't
any crime like robbery from someone leaving their car unlocked? This is not
a homeland issue persay but how a person is raised by their parents. I was
raised honest and truthful. Untrustworthy is how the some of the people in
the world are. Plain and simple it can not be changed really.


<snip>

Such a pity. Often the web site development company has their "claws"
into the client, sucking him dry of budget; a clutch so strong the
client cannot completely shake off. In a case like this, a swave

Wouldn't be sucking me dry of a budget, as I wouldn't pay for something I
could not afford. You seem to think that some people will just spend
everything they got to have a web site designed and SEO'ed to make it to the
top, I don't feel many would do this. I for one wasn't when I started.

Stacey
--
Crafts - Directory - Your Online Crafting Source
http://www.ecraftsonline.net/
A New Focus In Web Marketing - Search Engine Optimization
http://jezsta.com

Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Aug 2006 07:48:25 GMT, John Bokma <john (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote:

[..]

learn nothing? I learn often the most from arguments :-D. The simplest
way to stop one if you're directly involved is by skipping the thread
The ones you're in, I do!

:-D

happens (I have my own message board just for that :-D). This is a
technical group, and quite some people are professionally involved in
search engines, and hence show their skills, and bump into each other.

Actually. most people aren't.

Let me rephrase: quite some people that are reading this group use SEO for
their business either directly (offering SEO) and/or indirectly
(optimizing their own site). I didn't want to suggest that some people
here are *directly* involved with search engines (like working for Google
et al). Somehow I wanted to use the name of the group in my statement :-D

--
John

Net::Google and Perl: http://johnbokma.com/perl/net-google.html

"Stacey" <Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

"John Bokma" <john (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Xns98191C8D22FDBcastleamber (AT) 130 (DOT) 133.1.4...
Big Bill <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

To many folk on this group are here solely for the sake of arguing
with the others.

If we all agreed here constantly then wouldn't we be merely sheeps,
and learn nothing? I learn often the most from arguments :-D. The
simplest way to stop one if you're directly involved is by skipping
the thread :- D. But somehow both sides seem to be focused on
winning, despite stating the contrary ;-)

I agree with you John.:-) I have learned also from our arguments. :-)
I also enjoyed some of our arguments.:-)

Same here. The list of people in this group I consider friends might
amaze some :-D Or probably not ;-)

Also, notice that if one (or more) people that belong to the "too
many folk" group leave a group that there is always someone else that
takes his/her place.

True or they come back, after a few years.

And somehow fit in right away, after they slapped some newbies with a
firm cluebat :-D. The newbies and not so newbies are even more amazed
when such a pita is welcomed with open arms by some. Remember, even
Daniel Joseph Min has a fan club :-D

This is true. One has to also remember that people don't actually know
people here, unless they get to know them without the NG. People can
read the same threads and see different meanings, like the person
wasn't attacking.

I guess this happens all the time, everywhere :-) But yeah, it's easier
with written text. Even a smiley: are you laughing with me, or at me :-D

Most people on the Usenet feel that when someone
disagrees with a person that it is an attack. Some are though, but
most aren't. If someone wants to take a strong stance on certain
things that some disagree with then there will be arguments.

Yup, and when one has read a lot, etc. there is often quite a firm base
for that strong stance. Often both are even right, I mean I can make a
long list of good arguments pro XHTML, and a long list contra XHTML.
Both arguments are valid, and maybe one list is longer then the other.
Yet I am contra :-D.

Earlier, Els (a very good personal friend, who I know outside Usenet)
stated that making a h4 visually appear as something different to a
visitor is dark black hat. Of course there are plenty of examples she's
right. But not always :-) So I decided to make a case of the "it's not
always dark". I think her logo (a h1) is a good example of not looking
like a heading to the visitor, but a justified use of h1.

In short, one reason I like arguments is that it makes people think,
including myself. Ages ago I yelled at everybody that liquid design was
the way to go. I got in a discussion with good counter arguments, kept
yelling my mantra, after a year I started to doubt liquid design, and
now I see clearly several of its flaws :-D.

And I know that this happens with a lot of discussions: people take
strong positions, defened them but after (often a long) time they start
to listen to the other side, and might even change their views :-D.

If there was an easier way, it probably would have been in use for
thousands of years :-D

Maybe it is different in other homeland but in mine we are raised on
trust. Sure, individually one can be as untrustworthy as any crooks
but our bases itself on fair play and ethical business practices.

Trust is common in Canada? I mean in a major city or something there
isn't any crime like robbery from someone leaving their car unlocked?
This is not a homeland issue persay but how a person is raised by
their parents. I was raised honest and truthful. Untrustworthy is how
the some of the people in the world are. Plain and simple it can not
be changed really.

:-D A friend once said: don't blame it on me, I was raised that way. I
was quite pissed off at that, since he was somehow telling me to not
make excuses :-)

I think that the task of parents (raising) ends somewhat when someone is
11. After that its more an exchange of ideas, and one has to make up
more and more one's own mind.

In short (ha ha): even if your parents are criminals and brought you up
cutting purses shouldn't stop you from looking around at age 11 or so
and think: this is not the way (robbing a bank or becoming president is
easier) :-D.

Such a pity. Often the web site development company has their
"claws" into the client, sucking him dry of budget; a clutch so
strong the client cannot completely shake off. In a case like this,
a swave

Wouldn't be sucking me dry of a budget, as I wouldn't pay for
something I could not afford. You seem to think that some people will
just spend everything they got to have a web site designed and SEO'ed
to make it to the top, I don't feel many would do this. I for one
wasn't when I started.

There are a load of companies that don't get through their first year. A
part because they spend too much money, a part because they try to do
everything themselves. No idea how large each part is, but I agree with
Fred, there are companies sucked dry by web development/SEO companies.

I now and then have a customer that asks me to finish a project.
Sometimes because the previous programmer sucked him/her almost dry.

In some other cases the customer wants to suck the programmer dry
though.


--
John Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/

Firefox RSS: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/rss-and...bookmarks.html

"John Bokma" <john (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote

"Stacey" <Remove-the-Y-stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:
snip

I agree with you John.:-) I have learned also from our arguments. :-)
I also enjoyed some of our arguments.:-)

Same here. The list of people in this group I consider friends might
amaze some :-D Or probably not ;-)

Actually, a lot of friends become friends because of arguments. People find
out that when they aregure at times it is because they are so much alike
they clash.:-)

Also, notice that if one (or more) people that belong to the "too
many folk" group leave a group that there is always someone else that
takes his/her place.

True or they come back, after a few years.

Yep, I just did some help in Google Support. Not easy, as I barely have time
for this one. I don't even post on my rug group, or any of my other groups.
This one though I enjoy the best.:-) IT seems better than talking to a bunch
of hens about making rugs.:-)

I was going to answer this back and didn't mark it got busy on a web design
and forgot where it was. I actually had to Google it to find it.LOL!! It is
marked now.

And somehow fit in right away, after they slapped some newbies with a
firm cluebat :-D. The newbies and not so newbies are even more amazed
when such a pita is welcomed with open arms by some. Remember, even
Daniel Joseph Min has a fan club :-D

Yeah, don't know how. With Minh. I am knocking on wood as I type, I hope he
is taken care of.

This is true. One has to also remember that people don't actually know
people here, unless they get to know them without the NG. People can
read the same threads and see different meanings, like the person
wasn't attacking.

I guess this happens all the time, everywhere :-) But yeah, it's easier
with written text. Even a smiley: are you laughing with me, or at me :-D

Don't I know it.:-)

Most people on the Usenet feel that when someone
disagrees with a person that it is an attack. Some are though, but
most aren't. If someone wants to take a strong stance on certain
things that some disagree with then there will be arguments.

Yup, and when one has read a lot, etc. there is often quite a firm base
for that strong stance. Often both are even right, I mean I can make a
long list of good arguments pro XHTML, and a long list contra XHTML.
Both arguments are valid, and maybe one list is longer then the other.
Yet I am contra :-D.

I can already make a list, if you are use to HTML try not to do XHTML. I did
and it is so hard to remember to close.:-) But I did it to do it really. The
craft site in my site is XHTML.

Earlier, Els (a very good personal friend, who I know outside Usenet)
stated that making a h4 visually appear as something different to a
visitor is dark black hat. Of course there are plenty of examples she's
right. But not always :-) So I decided to make a case of the "it's not
always dark". I think her logo (a h1) is a good example of not looking
like a heading to the visitor, but a justified use of h1.

Right, I remember I agreed it isn't dark hat for the logo to be h1.

In short, one reason I like arguments is that it makes people think,
including myself. Ages ago I yelled at everybody that liquid design was
the way to go. I got in a discussion with good counter arguments, kept
yelling my mantra, after a year I started to doubt liquid design, and
now I see clearly several of its flaws :-D.

Yeah, I like liquid(same as fluid only a different name right) design also.
I just don't like all that space floating around.:-) But some sites I have
seen with the center part being the main part and some look ok.

And I know that this happens with a lot of discussions: people take
strong positions, defened them but after (often a long) time they start
to listen to the other side, and might even change their views :-D.

That is true.

If there was an easier way, it probably would have been in use for
thousands of years :-D

Good thing is isn't thousands of years ago because that club I would have
been holding would be broke.:-)

<snip>

Trust is common in Canada? I mean in a major city or something there
isn't any crime like robbery from someone leaving their car unlocked?
This is not a homeland issue persay but how a person is raised by
their parents. I was raised honest and truthful. Untrustworthy is how
the some of the people in the world are. Plain and simple it can not
be changed really.

:-D A friend once said: don't blame it on me, I was raised that way. I
was quite pissed off at that, since he was somehow telling me to not
make excuses :-)

If I do something that my Mom didn't raise me to do she will remind me. :-)

I think that the task of parents (raising) ends somewhat when someone is
11. After that its more an exchange of ideas, and one has to make up
more and more one's own mind.

In short (ha ha): even if your parents are criminals and brought you up
cutting purses shouldn't stop you from looking around at age 11 or so
and think: this is not the way (robbing a bank or becoming president is
easier) :-DO.

Parenting is an issue that can get into arguments also. Trust me I didn't
stop parenting until they were 18. Shoot I still give advice whether they
want it or not. I tell my daughter Mom's will be like that until the day we
die. I get it from my Mom still.:-)

<snipp>

There are a load of companies that don't get through their first year. A
part because they spend too much money, a part because they try to do
everything themselves. No idea how large each part is, but I agree with
Fred, there are companies sucked dry by web development/SEO companies.

I agree there are a lot, but I don't think there are as many as the world is
falling apart from them. :-)

I now and then have a customer that asks me to finish a project.
Sometimes because the previous programmer sucked him/her almost dry.

In some other cases the customer wants to suck the programmer dry
though.

That is true. Sometimes the people doing the work gets backstabbed.:-)

Stacey

--
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