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Bootstrap PR?
Search Engine Optimization Discussion about SEO/Search Engine Optimization (alt.internet.search-engines)
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Bootstrap PR? -
08-01-2004
, 09:33 AM
#2
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This is a hypothetical case. Can a new website with about 100 pages internally develop a decent PR only with good internal links. If so, any pointers on how to setup the link system. |
colours
http://www.pagerank.dk/
--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
#3
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This is a hypothetical case. Can a new website with about 100 pages internally develop a decent PR only with good internal links. If so, any pointers on how to setup the link system. No, with 100 pages and no incoming links you'd be lucky to create a |
What you can do though is maximise any benefit from your incoming
links to your most important pages by creating a hierarchy of links
through your site.
Your home page should be the most important page and target the
hardest phrase. Link to it from every page on the site (using the
hardest phrase as anchor text).
The second level would be a small number of important pages (less than
a dozen) that also have a link from every page.
The next level is linked from the second level pages, but not from
every page on the site. You can create page clusters of related level
3 pages, where say ten highly related pages link to each other, so
they benefit from the related anchor text.
If you have a large site you might have another level of deeper pages
that are linked from the third level.
This arrangement looks a little like a pyramid with the home page at
the top and the least important pages at the bottom. What this does is
concentrate PR to your most important pages at the expense of the less
important pages. Larger the site, better this works.
If done correctly there can be multiple PR points between the home
page and the deepest pages.
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TIA Joe Agro |
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http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/
#4
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| What you can do though is maximise any benefit from your incoming links to your most important pages by creating a hierarchy of links through your site. Your home page should be the most important page and target the hardest phrase. Link to it from every page on the site (using the hardest phrase as anchor text). The second level would be a small number of important pages (less than a dozen) that also have a link from every page. The next level is linked from the second level pages, but not from every page on the site. You can create page clusters of related level 3 pages, where say ten highly related pages link to each other, so they benefit from the related anchor text. If you have a large site you might have another level of deeper pages that are linked from the third level. This arrangement looks a little like a pyramid with the home page at the top and the least important pages at the bottom. What this does is concentrate PR to your most important pages at the expense of the less important pages. Larger the site, better this works. If done correctly there can be multiple PR points between the home page and the deepest pages. David -- |
there are or no matter what the linking structure consists of hierarchy
or lowerarchy nor can they in any way increase pagerank. If anything
having a lot of pages if not done right can cause pr leakage and in my
opinion it's the pr leakage within the internal pages when there are a
lot of them that causes a site to be removed from google which certain
people around here view as a ban for naughty postings they think they've
done.
The one and only, SEO, reason for creating internal pages (lets say
50-100) would be for anchor text reasons for the link back to your
homepage. Creating over 100 is overkill and a waste of time. Most of the
benefits from anchor text backlinks must come from outside sources
either real link exchanging or spamming.
Pagerank comes from having a backlink to your site at sites that have
pagerank and it's the only way you're going to get it. To maximize your
pagerank look for sites with hardly any other backlinks on them. PR is
divided up by the number of links on a page. So if you have the only
backlink at a pr6 site it will be a stronger backlink than if you were
one of a million on a pr10 site.
#5
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SEO Dave wrote: What you can do though is maximise any benefit from your incoming links to your most important pages by creating a hierarchy of links through your site. Your home page should be the most important page and target the hardest phrase. Link to it from every page on the site (using the hardest phrase as anchor text). The second level would be a small number of important pages (less than a dozen) that also have a link from every page. The next level is linked from the second level pages, but not from every page on the site. You can create page clusters of related level 3 pages, where say ten highly related pages link to each other, so they benefit from the related anchor text. If you have a large site you might have another level of deeper pages that are linked from the third level. This arrangement looks a little like a pyramid with the home page at the top and the least important pages at the bottom. What this does is concentrate PR to your most important pages at the expense of the less important pages. Larger the site, better this works. If done correctly there can be multiple PR points between the home page and the deepest pages. David -- |
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Internal pages can not give a site pagerank no matter how many of them there are or no matter what the linking structure consists of hierarchy or lowerarchy nor can they in any way increase pagerank. |
single link from a new page does increase PR. Where do you think all
the PR comes from, the tooth fairy!!
The problem is one link from a new page is like adding a single drop
of water to a half filled swimming pool, you don't see a benefit, but
PR has increased. Or do you still believe adding a links from a PR3
page doesn't increase PR as well?
Add a million links from new pages and it's like adding a million
drops of water to a swimming pool, you see a difference, but the
difference is no where near the same as adding multiple high PR links
from external sources. A PR 1 link is like adding a cup of water, PR2
a bucket, PR3 a bath full, PR4 1/4 of a swimming pool, PR5 over a
swimming pool, etc....
With my 50,000 plus pages without incoming links I know I'd be hard
pushed to get a page above a low PR5.
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If anything having a lot of pages if not done right can cause pr leakage and in my opinion it's the pr leakage within the internal pages when there are a lot of them that causes a site to be removed from google which certain people around here view as a ban for naughty postings they think they've done. |
add ten thousand pages with say 20 linked from the PR6 home page and
they then link to the others (hierarchy) the home page will still be
PR6. If you also add a link to the home page from the new pages PR
will also increase a small amount.
If the original PR6 home page used to link to say 20 external pages
and now links to 20 external and 20 internal, those 20 external pages
will now get half as much PR as they received previously. So those
pages will loose PR.
Starting with a PR6 home page that already links to 20 internal pages
which links back to the home page. If you then add 10,000 more pages
and link them in the same way as before (from the 20 pages) the PR of
the home page may drop to PR5. It might stay PR6, but it's PR will
reduce since the PR originally returned from the 20 internal pages are
now mostly shared to the new 10,000 pages.
If you understand this, you understand how PR works in the real world
and how adding new pages is both good and bad, but overall it's good.
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The one and only, SEO, reason for creating internal pages (lets say 50-100) would be for anchor text reasons for the link back to your homepage. Creating over 100 is overkill and a waste of time. Most of the benefits from anchor text backlinks must come from outside sources either real link exchanging or spamming. |
difference between internal and external links. There is a difference,
but not what you think.
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Pagerank comes from having a backlink to your site at sites that have pagerank and it's the only way you're going to get it. To maximize your pagerank look for sites with hardly any other backlinks on them. PR is divided up by the number of links on a page. So if you have the only backlink at a pr6 site it will be a stronger backlink than if you were one of a million on a pr10 site. |
remove "and it's the only way you're going to get it" and I agree with
you.
BTW Sam interesting what is happening at the Phone Sex SERP. I'm
seeing your main site getting knocked off by a deleted free site
(redirects to http://www.freehomepages.com/missing.php)!! Also that
PR4 Phone Sex FAQ page is in the top 3 again and several over low PR
pages.
It's not looking good for you long term, should I be expecting an
email from you begging for help again. LOL
David
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http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/
#6
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With my 50,000 plus pages without incoming links I know I'd be hard pushed to get a page above a low PR5. Impossible. Proove it! Do a new site with a million pages if you like |
site will remain pr0. You can't have pr without external links. Internal
pages do not add any pr to a site only external. So prrove yourself and
do a new site with as many pages as you like and have no external links
and we'll see who is right and who is wrong and who knows about pr and
who doesn't.
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BTW Sam interesting what is happening at the Phone Sex SERP. I'm seeing your main site getting knocked off by a deleted free site (redirects to http://www.freehomepages.com/missing.php)!! Also that PR4 Phone Sex FAQ page is in the top 3 again and several over low PR pages. It's not looking good for you long term, should I be expecting an email from you begging for help again. LOL David -- |
5 on page two. You only wish you were doing as good. The freehomepages
site was the pcpages site and someone turned it into their abuse dept
and I wonder who might have done that David.
#7
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This is a hypothetical case. Can a new website with about 100 pages internally develop a decent PR only with good internal links. If so, any pointers on how to setup the link system. TIA Joe Agro AutoDrill www.AutoDrill.com |
#8
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BTW I have decided to make an effort to get in the top 10 for the Phone Sex SERP since it's probably the easiest way to shut you up, see you soon. David -- |
thinking there on your part) I already registered all the good
usernames) and pcpages I'd just get you deleted like you did mine but
good luck anyway old chap.
Hey did you ever see the movie A Fish Called Wanda? "You English are
just sooo pompous, you think you're so superior"! I love when Keven
Kline says that! Cracks me up.
psps-again 50,000 million internal pages will not boost your pr to your
index page and it's super overkill on anchor boost. Try this create a
site and do let's say 10 good pr4 links that you own to get listed in
google and get it to a pr4 or at least a pr3 and then wait a couple of
months till the site gets a pr3-4 and settles down and then add 50,000
pages and I guarantee you the pr will not go up.
#9
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SEO Dave wrote: With my 50,000 plus pages without incoming links I know I'd be hard pushed to get a page above a low PR5. Impossible. Proove it! |
I said with no incoming links I'd be hard pushed to get a reasonable
PR (PR5) from 50,000 pages. That is saying PR from new pages is so
insignificant that 50,000 pages is unlikely to make a PR5 page. In
other words a good PR6 link can likely beat 10s of thousands of links
from new pages in terms of PR.
I didn't do the calculation, so I could be wrong on the exact PR of
50,000 pages (then there is how you link it altogether), but it would
in theory create a home page with a PR higher than 0 (I estimate PR4,
but this is a guess since I can't be bothered working out what 50,000
pages can do).
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Do a new site with a million pages if you like and don't have even one single outside external link to the site and the site will remain pr0. |
need incoming links. So if someone created a million page site with no
links to it, it's highly unlikely it would be indexed. What's more
important than this is the fact Google indexes pages based on the PR
of links to it. So a million page site with no links to it, wouldn't
get many of it's pages indexed even if Google could find it.
So to get a million page site indexed, it would need links, a lot of
links.
If you want to come up with a test that doesn't fail on the points
above feel free.
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You can't have pr without external links. Internal pages do not add any pr to a site only external. So prrove yourself and do a new site with as many pages as you like and have no external links and we'll see who is right and who is wrong and who knows about pr and who doesn't. |
internal page transfers no PR, in other words a new page has no
intrinsic PR?
Please explain to us all then where all the PR originates from in the
first place??
I understand now why you say internal pages are only useful for anchor
text. You've just proved to me you know a lot less than I thought you
did!!
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BTW Sam interesting what is happening at the Phone Sex SERP. I'm seeing your main site getting knocked off by a deleted free site (redirects to http://www.freehomepages.com/missing.php)!! Also that PR4 Phone Sex FAQ page is in the top 3 again and several over low PR pages. It's not looking good for you long term, should I be expecting an email from you begging for help again. LOL David -- I'm doing great at phone sex and right now have 5 sites on page one and 5 on page two. You only wish you were doing as good. |
(well under 500 visitors a day, probably less than 100), I have
hundreds of SERPs that account for thousands of visitors a day. My
literature site received approx. 2500 unique visitors a day in July.
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The freehomepages site was the pcpages site and someone turned it into their abuse dept and I wonder who might have done that David. |
then loosing it to something like that. Made my day when I saw it.
Well done to whoever put the abuse report(s) in, I'll gladly take the
credit if no one else will, I can brag about getting one of your sites
deleted then :-))
BTW I have decided to make an effort to get in the top 10 for the
Phone Sex SERP since it's probably the easiest way to shut you up, see
you soon.
David
--
http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/
#10
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:27:34 GMT, Sam <. (AT) mail (DOT) com> wrote: Wrong. Every page has a very small amount of intrinsic PR and so a single link from a new page does increase PR. Where do you think all the PR comes from, the tooth fairy!! |
published PR formula, I am going to have to side with Sam on this one.
Remember, PR is meant to represent the chances that a surfer would come
across a site by following a path of random links.
In short, an island would never be discovered, In fact a continent would
never be discovered. Unless, someone had been there before and had left a
trace of it in the form of a link.
No inbound links from a site in the Google DB, no PR.
There is no such thing as "intrinsic PR".
Where do I think PR comes from? I think it is calculated by a formula that
begins with a "seed" site. What is the seed? The Google directory, which
last time I checked was PR 10. Everything starts there, Dave. That is why a
DMOZ listing is so important. DMOZ -> G Directory. Let the crawl begin....
John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...
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