alphabetised keywords?

"John Bokma" <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote

Stacey wrote:

True, but if the person just concentrated on *web design* only it
would be better.

Why not just on web? Or design for that matter?

Well, for obvious SEO reasons the site is about web design. Using those
words can help some but not like using the phrase. So, I would say
concentrate on web design....of course you are going to say the opposite.:-)

One could say: -Located in Leeds our wed design specialists can help you
with your site design and get you your web presence that is needed.-
Utilizing and concentrating on using the phrase is better. This sentence
used the phrase and the words web and design. Showing how easy it can be to
concentrate on the phrase of web design.:-)

If I wanted to have mainly customers from Leeds I would make sure that
Leeds and web design comes up very high.

Well, remember that little thing I had mentioned to you about using the
exact phrase match? And how it is important for SEO? This would tell you how
many sites are there using the phrase:

Examples: Both of the searches yeilds small results."leeds web
design" -6,750 "web design leeds" -19,000 So, you want to go for the big
daddy *web design*, and use like I had said Leeds in the content a little
and you could gain all 3 SERPs that you had mentioned. :-) A perfect example
of how to fit it in is above.

Then all they would have to do is mention Leeds a
couple of times and they would probably get those 3 smaller SERP's.

Who knows.

Oh, so when you advise someone for their site on the report you don't give
advice that you feel confident about?:-) I am totally confident that if
someone concentrated about the web design and adding maybe as the title Web
Design Leeds or Leeds Web Design. And mentioning it maybe a couple times
more in the body text can easily get you the other SERPs.

My site is about rag rugs, but I also show up several times in *rag rugs VA*
top 10 and *VA rag rugs* once in the top 10.

So, a SEO tip...always go for the main SERP first, then the secondary ones
will fall in to place.:-)

Stacey

On 19 Mar 2005 17:44:44 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com>
wrote:

SEO Dave wrote:

On 18 Mar 2005 20:11:17 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com
wrote:

That only works if you already get traffic from all the different
search phrases to start with.

Of course, but Google only looks for exact the same order if one uses ""
and I doubt that many people look for "web design leeds".

All though the above is true; "" (means exact match) I'm 99% sure the
OP wasn't using "search phrase" to mean an exact match search in
Google, but highlighting a search phrase in the post.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point was above?

You said look at two weeks worth of logs to determine which order is
used most.

I said you can only do that if you already have the SERPs to generate
enough log information and so a better way is Wordtracker as lists all
combinations that are used by real people.

I made the same mistake at first and it cost me traffic because I used
a combination of log files and Overture to determine which SERPs to
concentrate on. Log files are patchy at best and misleading at worst,
if I based SEO decisions on the log files I'd miss out on a lot of
traffic.

Overture is OK (it's free), but it doesn't distinguish subtle phrase
changes, for example it used to combine the results for men, mens, man
and mans so just from looking at Overture you don't know which of the
4 result in most traffic. Pick the wrong one (which is easy to do) and
loose traffic.

Overture - Men vs Man.

Men - 265631 (listed as man)
Man - 265631

Which is better Man or Men? You have no idea with Overture so must
guess.

Wordtracker - Men vs Man.

Men - 12221
Man - 3016

Easy Men results in 4 times the traffic compared to Man.

But what about men's, mens, mans, man's, men, man which has most
traffic? Only way I can found out is by using Wordtracker, everything
else is a guess.

BTW from an earlier thread you mentioned perl programmer is an
important phrase for your site. Wordtracker shows there is very little
traffic for that phrase-

perl programmers 12 10
perl programmers seattle 6 5
perl software programmers 6 5
software programmer unix c c++ perl bourne 2 2

(that's them all)

perl programming is better-

perl programming 38 31
computer programming language trends c perl python fortran 6 5
perl programming advanced 4 3
perl programming examples 4 3
perl programming tutorial 4 3
perl programming uses 4 3
introduction to perl programming 3 2
perl client server programming 3 2
perl programming class 3 2
perl programming example scripts 3 2
programming in perl 3 2
cgi programming in perl 2 2
cgi programming with perl 2 2
embedding perl programming c language 2 2
perl programming language 2 2
perl socket programming 2 2
programming in perl chop 2 2
programming in perl printf 2 2
programming web services with perl pdf chm 2 2
using perl for web programming 2 2
web programming with perl 5 2 2
what do letters in the programming language perl stand for 2 2

Also looking at the organisation of your main Perl page suggests these
are the most important phrases-

Perl help
Perl examples
Perl tutorials

Looking at just these 3 phrases

perl help 6 5
perl examples 11 9
perl tutorial 159 130

You can see from a traffic stand point Perl Tutorial is far more
important than help and examples, so optimization wise your title
would be better as something like-

Perl tutorials, examples and help
rather than
Perl help, examples, and tutorials

Or better yet-

Perl tutorials, examples and programming help

If you don't have access to the full paid version of Wordtracker and
you want the list of the top 300 Perl phrases let me know and I'll
email you a copy.

David
--
Free Search Engine Optimization Tutorial
http://www.seo-gold.com/tutorial/

Stacey wrote:

"John Bokma" <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Xns961EA88D7219Ecastleamber (AT) 130 (DOT) 133.1.4...
Stacey wrote:

True, but if the person just concentrated on *web design* only it
would be better.

Why not just on web? Or design for that matter?

Well, for obvious SEO reasons the site is about web design. Using
those words can help some but not like using the phrase. So, I would
say concentrate on web design....of course you are going to say the
opposite.:-)

Nah, I would say go for what attracts people in Leeds, since that's what
the OPs target seems to be.

One could say: -Located in Leeds our wed design
^^^

Now, let's not say that, I mean, I doubt he designs weddings :-D

specialists can help
you with your site design and get you your web presence that is
needed.- Utilizing and concentrating on using the phrase is better.

Spell checking it too :-D.

But I really hate crap like: We are a young and dynamic Leeds based web
design company that focuses on improving etc.

This sentence used the phrase and the words web and design. Showing
how easy it can be to concentrate on the phrase of web design.:-)

Or wed design for that matter ;-)

If I wanted to have mainly customers from Leeds I would make sure
that Leeds and web design comes up very high.

Well, remember that little thing I had mentioned to you about using
the exact phrase match?

Which no one in Leeds uses? Yup.

And how it is important for SEO? This would
tell you how many sites are there using the phrase:

Examples: Both of the searches yeilds small results."leeds web
design" -6,750 "web design leeds" -19,000 So, you want to go for the
big daddy *web design*,

Nop, I would make sure that I was on the first SERP for web design leeds
(without those "" thingies). Moreover, I would try to get also some
places close to Leeds on the map, so to speak.

What's the point if someone is looking for a web designer and ends up on
a page of someone who prefers to work locally?

I try to get programming jobs world wide, yet I have heard now and then
that people prefer personal contact. So, technically they drop me a
line, they ask some things, ask me to come over to visit them, and then
they discover that I am not around the corner. And yes, it's mentioned
in my resume where I am located :-D.

and use like I had said Leeds in the content a
little and you could gain all 3 SERPs that you had mentioned. :-) A
perfect example of how to fit it in is above.

I wed it's not :-D.

Anyway, if you want to have local customers, focus on them. And not
world wide. It's no use to get visitors 20,000 km away from your shop.

Then all they would have to do is mention Leeds a
couple of times and they would probably get those 3 smaller SERP's.

Who knows.

Oh, so when you advise someone for their site on the report you don't
give advice that you feel confident about?:-)

I am careful with advise of the form: we guarantee top 10 positions for
at least 20 keyphrases you pick for the next 3 months.

I am totally confident
that if someone concentrated about the web design and adding maybe as
the title Web Design Leeds or Leeds Web Design. And mentioning it
maybe a couple times more in the body text can easily get you the
other SERPs.

Yup, but what's the point if you get, say 300 visitors a day, and 299
are not interested in Leeds?

So, a SEO tip...always go for the main SERP first, then the secondary
ones will fall in to place.:-)

Only if you want to deliver world wide. A local butcher for example is
not interested in visitors from Whatchamacallit.

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

SEO Dave wrote:

On 19 Mar 2005 17:44:44 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com
wrote:

SEO Dave wrote:

On 18 Mar 2005 20:11:17 GMT, John Bokma <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com
wrote:

That only works if you already get traffic from all the different
search phrases to start with.

Of course, but Google only looks for exact the same order if one uses
"" and I doubt that many people look for "web design leeds".

All though the above is true; "" (means exact match) I'm 99% sure the
OP wasn't using "search phrase" to mean an exact match search in
Google, but highlighting a search phrase in the post.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point was above?

That if you use <title>web design leeds</title> you also get visitors
who search for leeds design web.

You said look at two weeks worth of logs to determine which order is
used most.

Yup, sometimes this can be a suprise, especially if you target a new
market :-D.

I said you can only do that if you already have the SERPs to generate
enough log information

Yup, there is no point in looking at an empty log file :-D. So you have
to make a choice one day, and then you pick the most natural feeling
order.

and so a better way is Wordtracker as lists all
combinations that are used by real people.

Yup, and how many do search for leeds web design? Or a new market? I
agree that wordtracker, overture etc. are nice, but don't hang yourself
up on it.

I made the same mistake at first and it cost me traffic because I used

[ ... ]

Easy Men results in 4 times the traffic compared to Man.

Depends a lot on what kind of man, men you are targetting of course.

perl programmers 12 10
perl programmers seattle 6 5
perl software programmers 6 5
software programmer unix c c++ perl bourne 2 2

(that's them all)

perl programming is better-

But my customers look for a perl programmer, not a perl programming.
See? Like a girl looks for a nice man. Not a nice men. It depends a lot
on the context.

perl programming 38 31
computer programming language trends c perl python fortran 6 5

I really doubt that that one is a natural search. I see the same with
overture, it has sometimes entries which don't feel natural to me but
more like a hmmm glitch ;-)

Also looking at the organisation of your main Perl page suggests these
are the most important phrases-

Perl help
Perl examples
Perl tutorials

Looking at just these 3 phrases

perl help 6 5
perl examples 11 9
perl tutorial 159 130

You can see from a traffic stand point Perl Tutorial is far more
important than help and examples, so optimization wise your title
would be better as something like-

Perl tutorials, examples and help
rather than
Perl help, examples, and tutorials

:-D It used to be the first one. I changed it, and got more hits (true).
Moreover, some searches are perl related but don't even use the word
perl. Yet they give me a lot of hits.

So: looking at statistics and looking at the real world are two things.
I get more hits for perl related things that don't mention perl than
perl thingies.

For example nmake is used a lot to make perl modules, so nmake download
gives me a lot of perl related traffic.

And of course a lot of "one shots" that don't show up in wordtracker et
al, but happen to be on my page.

If you don't have access to the full paid version of Wordtracker and
you want the list of the top 300 Perl phrases let me know and I'll
email you a copy.

Thanks, I will think about that one.

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

"John Bokma" <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote

Stacey wrote:

"John Bokma" <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Xns961EA88D7219Ecastleamber (AT) 130 (DOT) 133.1.4...
Stacey wrote:

True, but if the person just concentrated on *web design* only it
would be better.

Why not just on web? Or design for that matter?

Well, for obvious SEO reasons the site is about web design. Using
those words can help some but not like using the phrase. So, I would
say concentrate on web design....of course you are going to say the
opposite.:-)

Nah, I would say go for what attracts people in Leeds, since that's what
the OPs target seems to be.

Just what I said you would say. BTW the OP had nothing to do with web
design.

One could say: -Located in Leeds our wed design
^^^

Now, let's not say that, I mean, I doubt he designs weddings :-D

It isn't web design either. It is a limousine for hire.

specialists can help
you with your site design and get you your web presence that is
needed.- Utilizing and concentrating on using the phrase is better.

Spell checking it too :-D.

Well, of course. I am sure you have never misspelled anything.:-)

But I really hate crap like: We are a young and dynamic Leeds based web
design company that focuses on improving etc.

Yeah, that sounds like crap! You don't want to have young...........that
means you don't know what you are doing because you haven't been around long
enough.

This sentence used the phrase and the words web and design. Showing
how easy it can be to concentrate on the phrase of web design.:-)

Or wed design for that matter ;-)

OK, just wait!

If I wanted to have mainly customers from Leeds I would make sure
that Leeds and web design comes up very high.

Well, remember that little thing I had mentioned to you about using
the exact phrase match?

Which no one in Leeds uses? Yup.

Well, there isn't that MANY sites for Leeds either.

And how it is important for SEO? This would
tell you how many sites are there using the phrase:

Examples: Both of the searches yields small results."leeds web
design" -6,750 "web design leeds" -19,000 So, you want to go for the
big daddy *web design*,

Nop, I would make sure that I was on the first SERP for web design leeds
(without those "" thingies). Moreover, I would try to get also some
places close to Leeds on the map, so to speak.

Why, all you have to do is be listed in local directories. I don't even
mention I am in VA and I show up.

What's the point if someone is looking for a web designer and ends up on
a page of someone who prefers to work locally?

Like I said, be in a directory and you will show up. For one if you
concentrate on the web design part you are ahead of the other web designers
who concentrated on Leeds.

I try to get programming jobs world wide, yet I have heard now and then
that people prefer personal contact. So, technically they drop me a
line, they ask some things, ask me to come over to visit them, and then
they discover that I am not around the corner. And yes, it's mentioned
in my resume where I am located :-D.

I have made rugs for people that live in VA.

and use like I had said Leeds in the content a
little and you could gain all 3 SERPs that you had mentioned. :-) A
perfect example of how to fit it in is above.

I wed it's not :-D.

I know I misspelled web and put wed.........but that just doesn't make
sense!:-) I wed it's not????? LOL! Like I said just wait!

Anyway, if you want to have local customers, focus on them. And not
world wide. It's no use to get visitors 20,000 km away from your shop.

Well, I say different. Leeds web design is a secondary SERP. It is easy to
get!

Then all they would have to do is mention Leeds a
couple of times and they would probably get those 3 smaller SERP's.

Who knows.

Oh, so when you advise someone for their site on the report you don't
give advice that you feel confident about?:-)

I am careful with advise of the form: we guarantee top 10 positions for
at least 20 keyphrases you pick for the next 3 months.

We? You guarantee top 10 positions for 3 months huh? For 20 keyphrases? Is
this on Google?

I am totally confident
that if someone concentrated about the web design and adding maybe as
the title Web Design Leeds or Leeds Web Design. And mentioning it
maybe a couple times more in the body text can easily get you the
other SERPs.

Yup, but what's the point if you get, say 300 visitors a day, and 299
are not interested in Leeds?

That's just it. You don't get the point.:-)

So, a SEO tip...always go for the main SERP first, then the secondary
ones will fall in to place.:-)

Only if you want to deliver world wide. A local butcher for example is
not interested in visitors from Whatchamacallit.

Don't think so.:-) BTW "nop" is spelled nope.

Stacey

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:54:25 -0500, "Stacey"
<stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

wake me when its over.

Carol

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:00:06 GMT, Carol W <from_you (AT) nomail (DOT) com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:54:25 -0500, "Stacey"
stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

wake me when its over.

Carol

Once we get going we do tend to rabbit.

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
seo that loves a cuddle...
--

"Big Bill" <kruse (AT) cityscape (DOT) co.uk> wrote

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:00:06 GMT, Carol W <from_you (AT) nomail (DOT) com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:54:25 -0500, "Stacey"
stacey (AT) staceyssimplestuff (DOT) com> wrote:

wake me when its over.

Carol

Once we get going we do tend to rabbit.

Hey, you must have been on eBay!

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
seo that loves a cuddle...
--

You have changed your phrase again.:-)

Stacey wrote:

"John Bokma" <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote in message

[ snip ]

Nah, I would say go for what attracts people in Leeds, since that's
what the OPs target seems to be.

Just what I said you would say. BTW the OP had nothing to do with web
design.

Well it was an example he gave.

Well, of course. I am sure you have never misspelled anything.:-)

Didn't say that, but I see you do it a lot in postings, and it looks a
bit funny now and then :-D.

[ young and dynamic etc ]

Yeah, that sounds like crap! You don't want to have
young...........that means you don't know what you are doing because
you haven't been around long enough.

Sometimes I see sites offering a service, and I have to reread 5 times
what they really offer.

Well, there isn't that MANY sites for Leeds either.

True, but I can imagine that if you live in Leeds, that there is no
problem helping people out in places nearby.

Nop, I would make sure that I was on the first SERP for web design
leeds (without those "" thingies). Moreover, I would try to get also
some places close to Leeds on the map, so to speak.

Why, all you have to do is be listed in local directories. I don't
even mention I am in VA and I show up.

If you don't mention you're in VA and you only can handle local things,
that would be a problem. If you sell world wide, little problem.
(However, some might be pushed into purchasing if they know you live
nearby).

What's the point if someone is looking for a web designer and ends up
on a page of someone who prefers to work locally?

Like I said, be in a directory and you will show up.

I use Google, even for local things, e.g. finding the site(s) of a movie
theatre. I don't even know a local directory. Those are often hard to
find, even with Google ;-)

For one if you
concentrate on the web design part you are ahead of the other web
designers who concentrated on Leeds.

Unless they pop up above you if someone has leeds in the query.

I have made rugs for people that live in VA.

Yeah, I have programmed for people around the corner. But also for
people far far away (in another galaxy)

I wed it's not :-D.

I know I misspelled web and put wed.........but that just doesn't make
sense!:-) I wed it's not????? LOL! Like I said just wait!

I was wedding it wouldn't make sense :-D

Well, I say different. Leeds web design is a secondary SERP. It is
easy to get!

Funny, I remember the posting about adding "" to queries to make them
more specific etc. bla bla...

Yup, but what's the point if you get, say 300 visitors a day, and 299
are not interested in Leeds?

That's just it. You don't get the point.:-)

Oh, sure. I have been working in a shop and everyday it got 20 visitors,
and nobody bought anything. (Was not my shop btw).

Only if you want to deliver world wide. A local butcher for example
is not interested in visitors from Whatchamacallit.

Don't think so.:-)

Yeah, that's the problem, the thinking part.

BTW "nop" is spelled nope.

No OP. You have to be a computer geek to appreciate it :-D.

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

"John Bokma" <postmaster (AT) castleamber (DOT) com> wrote


<snip>

"plonk"