Adwords causes slipping down the natural rankings ?

Hi All,
I've been chewing on this question for a while. My customer has been
advertising outdoor products for several months since the site went live.
They have also been on the Google Adwords campaign for most of that time as
they wanted immediate visibility.

I am undecided as to why they do not appear anywhere in the natural results,
even though the pages are optimised. (My other customers have good rankings
who do not use adwords). Plus, it's not a competitive market they are in.

Plus, the other question is - if other search engines, e.g. MSN etc. "see"
that someone is using adwords, I wonder if they also score people down the
results, as the same seems true of these ?

What do you guys \ girls think ? I would welcome any feedback from anyone
that has the same conundrum.

Many thanks and Regards,
Paul

Paul wrote:

Hi All,
I've been chewing on this question for a while. My customer has been
advertising outdoor products for several months since the site went
live.
They have also been on the Google Adwords campaign for most of that
time as
they wanted immediate visibility.

I am undecided as to why they do not appear anywhere in the natural
results,
even though the pages are optimised. (My other customers have good
rankings
who do not use adwords). Plus, it's not a competitive market they are
in.

Plus, the other question is - if other search engines, e.g. MSN etc.
"see"
that someone is using adwords, I wonder if they also score people down
the
results, as the same seems true of these ?

What do you guys girls think ? I would welcome any feedback from
anyone
that has the same conundrum.

Many thanks and Regards,
Paul
All these systems - Google, Yahoo and such are very secretive of their

ranking algorithms, and a question like this can never be directly
answered unless there is some major information leak. Google did make it a
point to stress that AdWords and organic search systems are completely
separate. I think they even went as far as to say that there is no
interface between the two, although that would be a waste of important
statistics data and I can hardly believe that a no-nonsense company like
Google would tolerate such waste.

However, this is not to say that Google does not give lesser rankings to
commercial sites. I think this thought has a lot of merit to it. After
all, if it is a business-to-business situation, why would Google give your
business a free ride? You don't get a free listing in your local Yellow
Pages, I presume... It is so-o easy to spot a commercial site. The word
"product"("products") will be repeated 1000 times throughout the site;
then there will be words like "shipping", "return policy", "ordering" and
such in prominent places.
So, if you want Google to help you bringing new customers, you are going
to have to rely on AdWords much more than the organic search, even though
the opposite was true for your site in the past.

And, yes, it has been rumored before that Yahoo and MSN do actually rank
pages with AdSense ads lower than those without. Some webmasters even took
is as far as doing some “light cloaking” for Y! and MSN bots by removing
the AdSense code. Note that this is AdSense, not AdWords ads I’m talking
about, even though it’s the other side of the same medal, so to speak.
There is no way for a bot to see if someone is advertising on AdWords
network because all the ads are created on-the-fly via JavaScript, and
bots are JS-illiterate.


--
Cheers,
Dmitri
See Site Sig Below
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:18:41 GMT, info_at_1-script_dot_com (AT) foo (DOT) com
(www.1-script.com) wrote:

Paul wrote:


Hi All,
I've been chewing on this question for a while. My customer has been
advertising outdoor products for several months since the site went
live.
They have also been on the Google Adwords campaign for most of that
time as
they wanted immediate visibility.

I am undecided as to why they do not appear anywhere in the natural
results,
even though the pages are optimised. (My other customers have good
rankings
who do not use adwords). Plus, it's not a competitive market they are
in.

Plus, the other question is - if other search engines, e.g. MSN etc.
"see"
that someone is using adwords, I wonder if they also score people down
the
results, as the same seems true of these ?

What do you guys girls think ? I would welcome any feedback from
anyone
that has the same conundrum.

Many thanks and Regards,
Paul
All these systems - Google, Yahoo and such are very secretive of their
ranking algorithms, and a question like this can never be directly
answered unless there is some major information leak. Google did make it a
point to stress that AdWords and organic search systems are completely
separate. I think they even went as far as to say that there is no
interface between the two, although that would be a waste of important
statistics data and I can hardly believe that a no-nonsense company like
Google would tolerate such waste.

However, this is not to say that Google does not give lesser rankings to
commercial sites. I think this thought has a lot of merit to it. After
all, if it is a business-to-business situation, why would Google give your
business a free ride? You don't get a free listing in your local Yellow
Pages, I presume... It is so-o easy to spot a commercial site. The word
"product"("products") will be repeated 1000 times throughout the site;
then there will be words like "shipping", "return policy", "ordering" and
such in prominent places.
So, if you want Google to help you bringing new customers, you are going
to have to rely on AdWords much more than the organic search, even though
the opposite was true for your site in the past.

And, yes, it has been rumored before that Yahoo and MSN do actually rank
pages with AdSense ads lower than those without.

I doubt this could be accurately tested. Google would say they are
ranking the sites higher because they have confidence in the Adsense
relevance algo even though (hypothetically) the SERPS algo can't read
the javascripted output. Yahoo and MSN would have to say they can only
rank the sites on what their algos can determine which would exclude
anything generated by the Adsense javascript.

BB
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www.kruse.co.uk/ seo (AT) kruse (DOT) demon.co.uk
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