What do you think? Is it too snug?

On 09 Jul 2004 in macromedia.dreamweaver, webmaster wrote:

"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:cclv1k$725$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Why do we put the menus on the left when the scrollbars are on
the right?

Is this a trick question? 8)

No, but I can now see that it would be taken as such LOL

I asked because I am affected by arthritis; some days worse than
others.

Scenario.

It's a bad day. My left arm is practically useless. My right wrist
and fingers are really painful. I visit a few web sites and notice
that the main menu is on the opposite side of the window to the
scroll bars. Every time I scroll down a page I find I have to cross
over to the other side of the window to click on a link. "A trivial
amount of movement" you say. "Yes, for you maybe; not for me
though".

Interesting discussion. I hadn't really thought about this one, but
you have a point. Just a couple of observations:
- In the West, we read from left to right; I suspect that the natural
inclination is for our gaze to go to the left of a page.
- This begs the question of why the scroll bar wound up on the right
side of a web browser in the first place. ISTR a number of DOS apps
where the scroll bar is on the left.
- The W3C's CSS page is one of the few I've seen where the menu is on
the right:
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/
and it feels kinda weird.

--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.net/
Email: http://makowiec.net/email.php

That's why I rarely make pages that require scrolling, and when they do, I
always have return to top links on them. In addition, the tab key will work
to tab you through my menu options, and will work on most other
professionally built sites.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
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"webmaster" <terryuse (AT) btopenworld (DOT) com> wrote

"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:cclv1k$725$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Why do we put the menus on the left when the scrollbars are on the
right?

Is this a trick question? 8)

No, but I can now see that it would be taken as such LOL

I asked because I am affected by arthritis; some days worse than others.

Scenario.

It's a bad day. My left arm is practically useless. My right wrist and
fingers are really painful. I visit a few web sites and notice that the
main menu is on the opposite side of the window to the scroll bars. Every
time I scroll down a page I find I have to cross over to the other side of
the window to click on a link. "A trivial amount of movement" you say.
"Yes, for you maybe; not for me though".

Regards

Terry

looks good, makes me want to go stay a night

Murray *TMM* wrote:

Folks:

Check this page please -

http://www.therobertshouse.com/test/

Tell me if you think the content is too snug with the menu....

No, but IMHO, the menu is far too dark, "heavy" and dominating. It grabs
the attention which should be on the content.
Further on, the oval, "dimmed" image of the house that's far top on
every page makes it look as if the top margin is too far down, because
the image is so "soft" that you almost don't see it. A trick to check
the balance of a layout is to squint with your eyes so that the content
gets blurry (or remove your eyeglasses).

--
Dan Vendel - *GOF*
Contact: http://www.proformica.com/en/contact.shtml
Formmail tutorial: http://www.proformica.com/en/formmail_tutorial.shtml
Nested tables: http://www.proformica.com/en/nested_table_demo.shtml
SEO: http://www.proformica.com/en/search_engine_optimization.shtml
SE Utility: http://www.proformica.com/en/advanced_web_ranking.shtml
Search Dreamweaver newsgroup: http://www.proformica.com/google.html

Me too! Thanks!

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
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(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"RJweb" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

looks good, makes me want to go stay a night

Dan:

I see exactly what you are saying, and I think you are right on the money.
I don't think I'm going to have luck changing that, however. What I have
done, though, is what has been already recommended by Nadia - I have faded
that background image so that the page is not quite so visually 'busy'.

Now - since the masthead image (and the montage image) both have feathered
edges, the only way I could reasonably show that with background texture was
to include the background in the image (you know?). This creates a minor
alignment problem, but that's easy to solve. With the faded tiling
background, and with the UNFADED background embedded in the pixels of those
images, it kind of draws your eye to them, and away from the other page
graphics. At least I think so. I have uploaded for you to examine....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Dan Vendel *GOF*" <see_my_signature_ (AT) _the_bottom_of_the_post (DOT) org> wrote in
message news:ccm1lq$hc7$5 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...

Murray *TMM* wrote:

Folks:

Check this page please -

http://www.therobertshouse.com/test/

Tell me if you think the content is too snug with the menu....


No, but IMHO, the menu is far too dark, "heavy" and dominating. It grabs
the attention which should be on the content.
Further on, the oval, "dimmed" image of the house that's far top on
every page makes it look as if the top margin is too far down, because
the image is so "soft" that you almost don't see it. A trick to check
the balance of a layout is to squint with your eyes so that the content
gets blurry (or remove your eyeglasses).

--
Dan Vendel - *GOF*
Contact: http://www.proformica.com/en/contact.shtml
Formmail tutorial: http://www.proformica.com/en/formmail_tutorial.shtml
Nested tables: http://www.proformica.com/en/nested_table_demo.shtml
SEO: http://www.proformica.com/en/search_engine_optimization.shtml
SE Utility: http://www.proformica.com/en/advanced_web_ranking.shtml
Search Dreamweaver newsgroup: http://www.proformica.com/google.html

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:33:18 -0400, "Murray *TMM*"
<forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote:

Yep - exactly what I did.

http://www.therobertshouse.com/test/

Looks better - thanks!

Much better. Good luck!


Gary

Durwood:

Yep - that's the issue I have right now.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Durwood Edwards" <durwoode (AT) NOSPAMbellsouth (DOT) net> wrote

I gotta agree 100% with Dan, but I understand that it is not always the
designer's decision or within her/his power to explain the obvious.
(Grinny)

Durwood
"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:ccm2t4$bt4$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Dan:

I see exactly what you are saying, and I think you are right on the
money.
I don't think I'm going to have luck changing that, however. What I
have
done, though, is what has been already recommended by Nadia - I have
faded
that background image so that the page is not quite so visually 'busy'.

Now - since the masthead image (and the montage image) both have
feathered
edges, the only way I could reasonably show that with background texture
was
to include the background in the image (you know?). This creates a
minor
alignment problem, but that's easy to solve. With the faded tiling
background, and with the UNFADED background embedded in the pixels of
those
images, it kind of draws your eye to them, and away from the other page
graphics. At least I think so. I have uploaded for you to examine....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO
GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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"Dan Vendel *GOF*" <see_my_signature_ (AT) _the_bottom_of_the_post (DOT) org> wrote
in
message news:ccm1lq$hc7$5 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Murray *TMM* wrote:

Folks:

Check this page please -

http://www.therobertshouse.com/test/

Tell me if you think the content is too snug with the menu....


No, but IMHO, the menu is far too dark, "heavy" and dominating. It
grabs
the attention which should be on the content.
Further on, the oval, "dimmed" image of the house that's far top on
every page makes it look as if the top margin is too far down, because
the image is so "soft" that you almost don't see it. A trick to check
the balance of a layout is to squint with your eyes so that the
content
gets blurry (or remove your eyeglasses).

--
Dan Vendel - *GOF*
Contact: http://www.proformica.com/en/contact.shtml
Formmail tutorial:
http://www.proformica.com/en/formmail_tutorial.shtml
Nested tables: http://www.proformica.com/en/nested_table_demo.shtml
SEO: http://www.proformica.com/en/search_engine_optimization.shtml
SE Utility: http://www.proformica.com/en/advanced_web_ranking.shtml
Search Dreamweaver newsgroup: http://www.proformica.com/google.html

I gotta agree 100% with Dan, but I understand that it is not always the
designer's decision or within her/his power to explain the obvious. (Grinny)

Durwood
"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote

Dan:

I see exactly what you are saying, and I think you are right on the money.
I don't think I'm going to have luck changing that, however. What I have
done, though, is what has been already recommended by Nadia - I have faded
that background image so that the page is not quite so visually 'busy'.

Now - since the masthead image (and the montage image) both have feathered
edges, the only way I could reasonably show that with background texture
was
to include the background in the image (you know?). This creates a minor
alignment problem, but that's easy to solve. With the faded tiling
background, and with the UNFADED background embedded in the pixels of
those
images, it kind of draws your eye to them, and away from the other page
graphics. At least I think so. I have uploaded for you to examine....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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==================

"Dan Vendel *GOF*" <see_my_signature_ (AT) _the_bottom_of_the_post (DOT) org> wrote
in
message news:ccm1lq$hc7$5 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Murray *TMM* wrote:

Folks:

Check this page please -

http://www.therobertshouse.com/test/

Tell me if you think the content is too snug with the menu....


No, but IMHO, the menu is far too dark, "heavy" and dominating. It grabs
the attention which should be on the content.
Further on, the oval, "dimmed" image of the house that's far top on
every page makes it look as if the top margin is too far down, because
the image is so "soft" that you almost don't see it. A trick to check
the balance of a layout is to squint with your eyes so that the content
gets blurry (or remove your eyeglasses).

--
Dan Vendel - *GOF*
Contact: http://www.proformica.com/en/contact.shtml
Formmail tutorial: http://www.proformica.com/en/formmail_tutorial.shtml
Nested tables: http://www.proformica.com/en/nested_table_demo.shtml
SEO: http://www.proformica.com/en/search_engine_optimization.shtml
SE Utility: http://www.proformica.com/en/advanced_web_ranking.shtml
Search Dreamweaver newsgroup: http://www.proformica.com/google.html

The background is still a bit overpowering for me. Also, the menu feels funny.
With it being flush with the top, but everything else starting a ways down,
plus the fact that it feels like it's a border element and the rest of the page
is borderless, I don't know. I'm not making any sense except to myself.

But the menu feels funny, like it doesn't belong. Kind of like a plastic pink
flamingo in a cemetary lawn.