Using Layout Tables

#1

Hi All and Happy New Year,
I am building a web template page but am unable to get the desired results.
Firstly I have one template where I want the page centred but the layers that I
use for other parts of the page do not move relative to the layout table.

The second issue is that when I use layout tables that I want to appear upper
left (0,0) they appear with a boarder top and left. Can anyone help resolve
these two page layout issues?

#2

Quote:

I am building a web template page but am unable to get the desired
results.
Firstly I have one template where I want the page centred but the layers
that I
use for other parts of the page do not move relative to the layout table.

That's correct. If you want to combine layers with tables, you have to
either settle for left-aligned, fixed width pages, or you have to use an
outer relatively positioned wrapper that is centering to drag your layers
along, e.g.,

Change this -

</head>

to this -

<style type="text/css">

</style>
</head>

change this -

<body ...>

to this -

<body ...>
<div id="wrapper">

and this -

</body>

to this -

</div>
</body>

and see if that helps.

Quote:

The second issue is that when I use layout tables that I want to appear
upper
left (0,0) they appear with a boarder top and left. Can anyone help
resolve
these two page layout issues?

Don't use Layout tables at all. They will interfere with your ability to
improve as a DW user. But to specifically solve your problem, do this -

Link to an external stylesheet (using DW's CSS editor), or embed a
stylesheet in your code (between <head> and </head>) with the following
style in it (embedded shown for cut-n-paste convenience) (assuming you want
zero margins) -

<style type="text/css">

</style>
(when the value is zero, units are not required)

you could also try

body { margin: 0 0 0 0; padding:0; }

or

body { margin: 0; padding:0; }

as a shorthand method.

This will take care of the margins in IE4+ and NN6.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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==================

"lloydcodrington" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Hi All and Happy New Year,
I am building a web template page but am unable to get the desired
results.
Firstly I have one template where I want the page centred but the layers
that I
use for other parts of the page do not move relative to the layout table.

The second issue is that when I use layout tables that I want to appear
upper
left (0,0) they appear with a boarder top and left. Can anyone help
resolve
these two page layout issues?

#3

Murray,
Happy New Year and thanks for the code.

All the best
Lloyd

#4

Good luck, Lloyd - and thanks!

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"lloydcodrington" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Murray,
Happy New Year and thanks for the code.

All the best
Lloyd

#5

Hi Murray,
Hope you are still subscribed to this topic!

Please in your reply you say it would curtail my skill, in effect, if I use
layout tables in my websites. Could I ask you why and also for any tips on
producing effective layouts?

Thanks in anticipation,
Lloyd Codrington

#6

Lloyd:

In my opinion, there are three serious problems with Layout Mode -

1. Perhaps most importantly, it sits between you and *real* HTML tables,
and fools you into believing that concepts like "layout cell" and
"autostretch" really mean something. They do not. As long as you use
Layout Mode, you'll never learn one of the most important things for new web
developers - how to build solid and reliable tables.

2. Actually, #1 wouldn't be *so* bad, except that the code that is written
by Layout Mode is really poor code. For example, a layout table contains
MANY empty rows of cells. This can contribute to a table's instability.
In addition, if your initial positioning of the table's cells is a bit
complex,
Layout Mode will throw in col- and rowspans aplenty as it merges and splits
cells willy-nillly to achieve the pixel-perfect layout you have specified.
Again, this is an extremely poor method for building stable
tables, because it allows changes in one tiny cell's shape (i.e.,
dimensions) to ripple through the rest of the table, usually with unexpected
and sometimes disastrous consequences.

3. The UI for Layout Mode is beyond confusing - many options that you might
want to use are inaccessible, e.g., inserting another table, or layer onto
the page.

I can understand the new user's desire to use this tool to make their life
easier, but the cost is just too heavy in my opinion.

To make good tables, keep it simple. Put a table on the page, and begin to
load your content. If you would want a different table layout, instead of
merging or splitting cells, consider stacking tables or nesting simple
tables instead, respectively.

And above all, do not try to build the whole page with a single table!

To read more about this approach, visit the DW FAQ link in my sig, and run
through the table tutorials.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"lloydcodrington" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Hi Murray,
Hope you are still subscribed to this topic!

Please in your reply you say it would curtail my skill, in effect, if I
use
layout tables in my websites. Could I ask you why and also for any tips
on
producing effective layouts?

Thanks in anticipation,
Lloyd Codrington

#7

Murray,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have used layout tables in MS FP and
found that very painful at stages. It was for that reason that I decided to
invest in DW. But alas it seems like they are just not the thing to use to be
a competant web developer. I value your opinon and trust that your advice will
aid my development as a designer and developer.

Thanks again for taking the time.

All the best
Lloyd Codrington

#8

Lloyd:

Thanks for your confidence. Here's a sincere tip. Spend a few weeks
learning as much HTML as you can. Then read about CSS. When you come back
to DW, it'll seem so much easier....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"lloydcodrington" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Murray,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have used layout tables in MS FP
and
found that very painful at stages. It was for that reason that I decided
to
invest in DW. But alas it seems like they are just not the thing to use
to be
a competant web developer. I value your opinon and trust that your advice
will
aid my development as a designer and developer.

Thanks again for taking the time.

All the best
Lloyd Codrington

#9

I honestly can't say how much you have assisted me today. I have got a spring
in my seat because the site I am working on is my own company's new site to
replace the MS FP bodge job I did a year ago.

Before Xmas I decided to reinvent my business and was not liking the way the
development was working out. That is until today.

Murray I don't have any reference books on CSS but will visit the library
tomorrow. However I do have The Complete Reference HTML third edition which
includes XHTML 1.0 and so I will take your advices and read it. Obviously day
by day for the next year.

Maybe one day I may I help you advice others on this site or whatever site
forum structure Adobe create for us.

Good nigh and God bless
Lloyd

#10

Good luck, Lloyd. And watch that springy step.... 8)

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"lloydcodrington" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

I honestly can't say how much you have assisted me today. I have got a
spring
in my seat because the site I am working on is my own company's new site
to
replace the MS FP bodge job I did a year ago.

Before Xmas I decided to reinvent my business and was not liking the way
the
development was working out. That is until today.

Murray I don't have any reference books on CSS but will visit the library
tomorrow. However I do have The Complete Reference HTML third edition
which
includes XHTML 1.0 and so I will take your advices and read it. Obviously
day
by day for the next year.

Maybe one day I may I help you advice others on this site or whatever site
forum structure Adobe create for us.

Good nigh and God bless
Lloyd