Re: Three levels of templates with conditional navigation menus

GGirl:

Obviously this is a very complex issue. Your question is also quite
complex.

I will need to study it in detail to post a good answer. Please let me do
that today and I will reply tomorrow.

It would help me if you could post a URI to some of your pages, or even
email me a zip file of your templates....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

I'm building a site right now for a small university using templates, and
relying heavily on the Halstead & Summers book about Templates.

While I am having success using parameters with a single template and
child pages, I keep hitting road blocks when I try to integrate these things

into a nested template system. I'm about ready to give up and just have 12
different templates for each of the sections of our site, yet I would so
much prefer to get the nested system working--I am certain it would be of
much benefit down the road to be able to update all twelve templates at
once.

Basically, the navigation is the same on all pages, with the exception
that on each of our six primary navigation sections of the site (e.g.

"Academics", "Student Services", etc.) there is a different pull-down text
navigation menu that opens in the down-state for each section.

Thus, I need to implement a multipleIf statement which displays the proper
sub-nav menu for each section. In this, I was successful, and appreciated

the feedback I received from Murray on this forum. However, I'm having
problems getting this to work in a nested structure.

Second problem is that each of the six primary navigation sections has a
rollover image, while the pull-down subnav menus are in text. Thus, I have

to integrate parameters for both images and text--and all within nested
templates.

The third problem is that templates 7 thru 12 (one for each of the
programs our university offers) are all sub-nested underneath the primary

nav section titled "Academics". After having problems with just one layer
of nesting, I am leery of having to add another set of nested templates
below the first level.

I've been searching forum archives trying to find comments which pertain
to these issues. I have seen some suggestions that seem like they might

apply---such as to make each of the subnav menus a Library Item. However,
when i tried that one, it wouldn't let me add conditional parameters to the
first nested template level, especially when all six of the first level
nested templates are based on conditional parameters from the Master parent
template. (Is it even possible to have conditional parameters in a child
template that is based in conditional parameters from it's parent template?)

Yet, on the other hand, when I take a different approach and try to have a
simple editable region called "navigation" on the master parent template,

and then add in the conditional parameters to generate the child pages from
each child template, it won't let me do that either--I get the following
error message:

"You have made changes to code that is not marked as editable." Yet, it
is right smack dab in the center of an editable region! Plus, when I try

to save the changes anyways, I get another error message: "Access to
undefined template parameter "page_id"." Yet, up in the head that very
parameter exists, as follows:

!-- InstanceParam name="page_id" type="text" value="home" --

What gives?

This is getting very frustrating! :-)

Has anyone attempted a project like this who can give me some feedback?
Basically, the challenge is to integrate three layers of templates (Master,

Primary Nav, Secondary Nav) with different pulldown text menus under each of
the templates which involve both text and graphic elements.

Big request I know--just having an example of something like this would be
very helpful though!

Thank you.

Hey there!

Just updated the decloak.com web site....

increase the product to a 60-day evaluation.

If you are wanting to do nested templates and you want to do it the "right"
way,
http://www.decloak.com/Products/Dreamweaver/NestedTemplates/

FIRST OFF, you are not buying a "tie-me-down" proprietary solution.

And you can't go wrong here. You will at least get an 83 page instruction
manual with 34 pictures, and nine (9) functional web sites.....technically
you don't even need the extension..it was created to make things easier but
you can still work with templates just as you do now.

Nevertheless, we are the first and only company to offer and recommend a
nested template solution that uses Dreamweaver MX templates AND also the
first and only company to offer a Multi-Lingual Template and Menu system via
nested templates.....that's real power, via its simplicity.....


If you care to do a Google search within this newsgroup on terms "nested
templates", its been highly NOT-recommended, shunned, outcast, deemed too
complex. You name it, its been called it. Ever since Dreamweaver MX came
out last year, its new template features have been highly shunned by those
trying to help you and all the gurus associated with Macromedia.

If you asked this same question before our product came out just a few weeks
ago, you would have been told NOT to use nested templates.......see for
yourself and search
Google-->Macromedia Groups
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=nested+templates&meta=group%3Dmacromedia.*
(watch out for word wrap and include the asterisk)

You can easily see for yourself that there has recently been a 180 degree
turn here regarding nested templates. You should ask yourself why this
sudden change...actually pure silence as opposed to outright, "don't try it,
or you will regret it" answer.

Also, for our product, this is like the 5th version since Dreamweaver MX was
released. So all this trial and error has been already done for you and
you're getting a well developed template and menu system.

IMO, you are simply wasting your time with those who do not have a working,
in-production nested template solution in the first place.

And even if you do get a solution from someone here in this group, compare
the Pros and Cons.

Can they easily swap things in and out? Make entire site changes with one
click AND also section-only changes with one click as well? Has it got an
Organized structure for a vast web site? What about the design view? Does
it look WYSIWYG or are there menu items all over the place where you can't
even tell what your web page looks like? Does it include an extension to
make things easier to update? Does it have a 3 way menu system? Is the
instruction manual tailored specifically for your problem? How easy is it to
add another section? What about making tailored sections as opposed to just
menu item changes to parts of a web site? What about the option to go
multi-lingual in the future? How about going Multi-Lingual right now? The
lists goes on and on.....

What have you got to lose?....try the 60-day evaluation...see the power of
nested templates.


dc
decloak, Inc.
http://www.decloak.com

"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Wow, Murray, what an offer! I just tried to send a zip to you at the
following address--is this correct?

forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com

Glenn

Wow, Murray, what an offer! I just tried to send a zip to you at the following address--is this correct?

forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com

Glenn

Glenn:

I got it....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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==================
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"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Wow, Murray, what an offer! I just tried to send a zip to you at the
following address--is this correct?

forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com

Glenn

Wow, Murray, i'm looking forward to hearing more!

I will be out for the next couple hours, then i'll check back when i can to see what you came up with.

It will be great if this is squared away--our completion date is getting a little close for comfort, and i've been torn over the last few days over which route to take--nested or not nested.

Glenn

Glenn:

Frankly, I'd use non-nested as a first approximation simply because nested
gets so complex so quickly.

Do have a look at decloak's nested template thing. I have and it looks like
a solid implementation.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to make time to look at your pages.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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==================

"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

Wow, Murray, i'm looking forward to hearing more!

I will be out for the next couple hours, then i'll check back when i can
to see what you came up with.

It will be great if this is squared away--our completion date is getting a
little close for comfort, and i've been torn over the last few days over

which route to take--nested or not nested.

Glenn

What!!! Vacation!!!

Are you allowed to go on vacation?

Is this group aware of that you are going on vacation? If not, you need to
let them know about it. You will need to get your co-author to help out
then, unless that person is also going on vacation.

dc
decloak, Inc.
http://www.decloak.com/


"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote

dc:

I have not spent enough time with your product to give a comprehensive
evaluation. But the several template sets that I looked at seemed to be
quite solid and nicely done.

I am not a great fan of nested templates (particularly of passthrough
parameters) because of the huge complexity of the issues involved with
them
and the mind-bending troubleshooting associated with those problems. I
know
that there is power to be tapped in there but I have treaded very softly
around the periphery waiting for the need to pounce. Even after authoring
the chapter in Brad's and my book, I am still just lurking.

It seems you may have shown the way. I will look more closely when I
return
from a 10-day jaunt to the horse trails of Montana....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"dc" <dc-re-m-o-v-e-me- (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bf2uev$ml1$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Thank you Murry for your honest assessment.

I feel like I was completely open in the "endzone" and I am jumping up
and
down trying to get the quarterback to throw to me...And finally at least
the
"quarterback" of this newsgroup saw me.

Oh, wait a second. This analog is American football, not so called, real
"football", soccer.

Nested Templates are big.....real big....just got to get people to use
it
once or just to even play around with it.

Nested Template can be sort of comparable to how Novell pioneered
networking
with its tree like interface for viewing the network resources. And
then
how Windows Explorer uses a Tree-like GUI to look at the files on the
hard
disk of your computer.....

So instead of just looking at files or storing them, Nested Template
actually "creates" files and "manages" them in a tree-like way.

IMO, the multi-lingual ability of Nested Templates (Tongues of Fire) can
only help the Internet and quite possibly bring the complex frontier of
web
sites in multiple foreign languages into the mainstream.

And to think from the beginning, all I really wanted to do was create a
easy
to use and easily manageable navbar for my web site. Handling multiple
languages was never intended nor even dreamed of.

dc
http://www.decloak.com/
decloak, Inc.
Tongues of Fire


http://www.decloak.com/Products/Dreamweaver/NestedTemplates/Demos/NestedT_Tongues_of_Fire/Default.html




"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bevd1i$3f8$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Glenn:

Frankly, I'd use non-nested as a first approximation simply because
nested
gets so complex so quickly.

Do have a look at decloak's nested template thing. I have and it
looks
like
a solid implementation.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to make time to look at your pages.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO
GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bevcr5$342$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Wow, Murray, i'm looking forward to hearing more!

I will be out for the next couple hours, then i'll check back when i
can
to see what you came up with.

It will be great if this is squared away--our completion date is
getting
a
little close for comfort, and i've been torn over the last few days
over
which route to take--nested or not nested.

Glenn

dc:

I have not spent enough time with your product to give a comprehensive
evaluation. But the several template sets that I looked at seemed to be
quite solid and nicely done.

I am not a great fan of nested templates (particularly of passthrough
parameters) because of the huge complexity of the issues involved with them
and the mind-bending troubleshooting associated with those problems. I know
that there is power to be tapped in there but I have treaded very softly
around the periphery waiting for the need to pounce. Even after authoring
the chapter in Brad's and my book, I am still just lurking.

It seems you may have shown the way. I will look more closely when I return
from a 10-day jaunt to the horse trails of Montana....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"dc" <dc-re-m-o-v-e-me- (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Thank you Murry for your honest assessment.

I feel like I was completely open in the "endzone" and I am jumping up and
down trying to get the quarterback to throw to me...And finally at least
the
"quarterback" of this newsgroup saw me.

Oh, wait a second. This analog is American football, not so called, real
"football", soccer.

Nested Templates are big.....real big....just got to get people to use it
once or just to even play around with it.

Nested Template can be sort of comparable to how Novell pioneered
networking
with its tree like interface for viewing the network resources. And then
how Windows Explorer uses a Tree-like GUI to look at the files on the hard
disk of your computer.....

So instead of just looking at files or storing them, Nested Template
actually "creates" files and "manages" them in a tree-like way.

IMO, the multi-lingual ability of Nested Templates (Tongues of Fire) can
only help the Internet and quite possibly bring the complex frontier of
web
sites in multiple foreign languages into the mainstream.

And to think from the beginning, all I really wanted to do was create a
easy
to use and easily manageable navbar for my web site. Handling multiple
languages was never intended nor even dreamed of.

dc
http://www.decloak.com/
decloak, Inc.
Tongues of Fire

http://www.decloak.com/Products/Dreamweaver/NestedTemplates/Demos/NestedT_Tongues_of_Fire/Default.html




"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bevd1i$3f8$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Glenn:

Frankly, I'd use non-nested as a first approximation simply because
nested
gets so complex so quickly.

Do have a look at decloak's nested template thing. I have and it looks
like
a solid implementation.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to make time to look at your pages.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO
GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bevcr5$342$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Wow, Murray, i'm looking forward to hearing more!

I will be out for the next couple hours, then i'll check back when i
can
to see what you came up with.

It will be great if this is squared away--our completion date is
getting
a
little close for comfort, and i've been torn over the last few days over
which route to take--nested or not nested.

Glenn

8) - I'm not even taking my laptop. My horse doesn't have a grounded plug.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"dc" <dc-re-m-o-v-e-me- (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

What!!! Vacation!!!

Are you allowed to go on vacation?

Is this group aware of that you are going on vacation? If not, you need
to
let them know about it. You will need to get your co-author to help out
then, unless that person is also going on vacation.

dc
decloak, Inc.
http://www.decloak.com/

Ok, based your comments below regard the setting of template parameter, I
have added some additional figures on template parameters. Including some
TIPS and HINTS on if there are being set correctly.

This is available on the free download off the web sites. You just click
for it, no need for e-mail, name, etc....

http://www.decloak.com/Products/Dreamweaver/NestedTemplates/EvalDownloads.aspx


dc
http://www.decloak.com/
decloak, Inc.
Tongues of Fire





"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote

dc:

I have not spent enough time with your product to give a comprehensive
evaluation. But the several template sets that I looked at seemed to be
quite solid and nicely done.

I am not a great fan of nested templates (particularly of passthrough
parameters) because of the huge complexity of the issues involved with
them
and the mind-bending troubleshooting associated with those problems. I
know
that there is power to be tapped in there but I have treaded very softly
around the periphery waiting for the need to pounce. Even after authoring
the chapter in Brad's and my book, I am still just lurking.

It seems you may have shown the way. I will look more closely when I
return
from a 10-day jaunt to the horse trails of Montana....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"dc" <dc-re-m-o-v-e-me- (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bf2uev$ml1$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Thank you Murry for your honest assessment.

I feel like I was completely open in the "endzone" and I am jumping up
and
down trying to get the quarterback to throw to me...And finally at least
the
"quarterback" of this newsgroup saw me.

Oh, wait a second. This analog is American football, not so called, real
"football", soccer.

Nested Templates are big.....real big....just got to get people to use
it
once or just to even play around with it.

Nested Template can be sort of comparable to how Novell pioneered
networking
with its tree like interface for viewing the network resources. And
then
how Windows Explorer uses a Tree-like GUI to look at the files on the
hard
disk of your computer.....

So instead of just looking at files or storing them, Nested Template
actually "creates" files and "manages" them in a tree-like way.

IMO, the multi-lingual ability of Nested Templates (Tongues of Fire) can
only help the Internet and quite possibly bring the complex frontier of
web
sites in multiple foreign languages into the mainstream.

And to think from the beginning, all I really wanted to do was create a
easy
to use and easily manageable navbar for my web site. Handling multiple
languages was never intended nor even dreamed of.

dc
http://www.decloak.com/
decloak, Inc.
Tongues of Fire


http://www.decloak.com/Products/Dreamweaver/NestedTemplates/Demos/NestedT_Tongues_of_Fire/Default.html




"Murray *TMM*" <forums (AT) HAHAgreat-web-sights (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bevd1i$3f8$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Glenn:

Frankly, I'd use non-nested as a first approximation simply because
nested
gets so complex so quickly.

Do have a look at decloak's nested template thing. I have and it
looks
like
a solid implementation.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to make time to look at your pages.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO
GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"GGirlando" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:bevcr5$342$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Wow, Murray, i'm looking forward to hearing more!

I will be out for the next couple hours, then i'll check back when i
can
to see what you came up with.

It will be great if this is squared away--our completion date is
getting
a
little close for comfort, and i've been torn over the last few days
over
which route to take--nested or not nested.

Glenn