Re: Table 100% H and W

I too a trying to get this acomplished. Our company has recently upgraded from
Dreamweaver 4 to Dreamweaver MX 2004 and my templates from the previous
versions are going wacky! Thus I decided to rebuild my templates in the new
version. Here is a URL of our current website and also explains what I am
trying to accomplish in using 100% wide and 100% high.
http://www.summitholdings.com/

Any suggestions on how to accomplish this is new "better" way?

Ok, here's what's happening. First off have a look at your pages - at the
doc type. DWMX4 doesn't insert a full doc type, whereas DWMX2004 does.
DWMX2004 is
doing it correctly, MX4 is not.

DWMX inserts a broken doctype on the page. Therefore, all these pages are
rendered in quirks mode not standard mode.

Table height is not valid html, and won't work in most modern browsers.
Without the doc type (quirks mode) some browsers will try and render 100%
height, some get it some don't.

I noticed this in your code: which is a bit of a worry

<table width="244%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" height="258">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<table width="244" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="25">

I'd do a site wide check of all your table widths and cell heights etc to
try and clean up the code and you may find that the site performs better
If you need to specify widths or heights, do it in your stylesheet.

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"JeremyDeal" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

I too a trying to get this acomplished. Our company has recently upgraded
from
Dreamweaver 4 to Dreamweaver MX 2004 and my templates from the previous
versions are going wacky! Thus I decided to rebuild my templates in the
new
version. Here is a URL of our current website and also explains what I am
trying to accomplish in using 100% wide and 100% high.
http://www.summitholdings.com/

Any suggestions on how to accomplish this is new "better" way?

"If you need to specify widths or heights, do it in your stylesheet." Is this
why Dreamweaver MX 04 automatically creates new styles without my knowing?

All valid points Nadia. However, I dont claim to be the best at this. I will
fix the code you mentioned, but... you never answered the question of my post
which was and still is: "Any suggestions on how to accomplish this (100%
height) in the new "better" way?"

This has to be possible. Thus far I know I can edit the default pages so that
Dreamweaver doesnt insert the new 4.0 code, but I want to learn how to do it in
the new standard. Please help!

Jeremy, see responses below:

"If you need to specify widths or heights, do it in your stylesheet."

Is this why Dreamweaver MX 04 automatically creates new styles
without my knowing?

As far as I am aware DWMX 04 doesn't create styles this way, you have to
create them Unless of course you mean the table widths and heights. see
below about dragging borders.......

I believe you are using layout mode right? If you drag the table borders
yes, the widths and heights change in the PI as you are dragging, that is
why it is better in design / code view. Don't drag the borders and this
won't happen. If you need to prop open a cell to a certain width and don't
want to put this in a stylesheet, insert a transparent shim into the cell at
the required width.

All valid points Nadia. However, I dont claim to be the best at
this. I will fix the code you mentioned, but... you never answered
the question of my post which was and still is: "Any suggestions on
how to accomplish this (100% height) in the new "better" way?"

Well, I did, actually - check my post where I say the same thing as the
following:
100% *table height* is invalid html..
there is no reliable - cross browser way to have a table height of 100%.
It may work if you remove the doc type from the head of your
document, and this *may* work in some browsers, but not the more modern
ones.

This has to be possible. Thus far I know I can edit the default
pages so that Dreamweaver doesnt insert the new 4.0 code, but I want
to learn how to do it in the new standard. Please help!

See the answer above. In standards mode, with the full doc type, there is
no reliable way to achieve what you are after. Sorry.
Don't take my word for it if you don't want to, just do a search on previous
posts by searching the MM archives (last link in my sig) using the phrase
100% table height...

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I don't think the W3C wants you to be able to do it, that's the problem.
There have been 1000s posts here about that and they generally drag on
and on, to eventually die out because there is apparently no reliable
and cross-browser way (besides the invalid 100% height way) to
accomplish the same thing.

JeremyDeal wrote:

"If you need to specify widths or heights, do it in your stylesheet." Is this
why Dreamweaver MX 04 automatically creates new styles without my knowing?

All valid points Nadia. However, I dont claim to be the best at this. I will
fix the code you mentioned, but... you never answered the question of my post
which was and still is: "Any suggestions on how to accomplish this (100%
height) in the new "better" way?"

This has to be possible. Thus far I know I can edit the default pages so that
Dreamweaver doesnt insert the new 4.0 code, but I want to learn how to do it in
the new standard. Please help!

OK. I guess I will have to cross my fingers and wait for HTML 5.0 since it cant
be currently done ) For now I'm going to remove the two lines of DOC
TYPE in my default html and template pages and go back to the good 'ole "quirks
mode" where stuff actually worked. I have yet to see a modern browser not
display my pages done in quirks mode correctly. I'm sure they are out there,
but I'm not going to worry about the small percentage of people who use a
special browsers. http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm 77% of all users
use IE6. Another 11% use IE5. That leaves 12% to be split up with another 7 (or
more) different browsers that might or might not work! That's not enough to
worry about loosing the 100% high over. Cheers.

I'm with you.
And I hope the W3C will indeed validate 100% height in the future, since
it's the most blatant html and css layout flaw that ever was.
Some people don't notice it (they are not designers but techies), but
personnaly I call it a BUG.

JeremyDeal wrote:

OK. I guess I will have to cross my fingers and wait for HTML 5.0 since it cant
be currently done ) For now I'm going to remove the two lines of DOC
TYPE in my default html and template pages and go back to the good 'ole "quirks
mode" where stuff actually worked. I have yet to see a modern browser not
display my pages done in quirks mode correctly. I'm sure they are out there,
but I'm not going to worry about the small percentage of people who use a
special browsers. http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm 77% of all users
use IE6. Another 11% use IE5. That leaves 12% to be split up with another 7 (or
more) different browsers that might or might not work! That's not enough to
worry about loosing the 100% high over. Cheers.

It's not likely, since there is no agreement on what 100% means.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"seb" <sebnewyork (AT) earhlink (DOT) netTakeThisOut> wrote

I'm with you.
And I hope the W3C will indeed validate 100% height in the future, since
it's the most blatant html and css layout flaw that ever was.
Some people don't notice it (they are not designers but techies), but
personnaly I call it a BUG.

JeremyDeal wrote:

OK. I guess I will have to cross my fingers and wait for HTML 5.0 since
it cant
be currently done ) For now I'm going to remove the two lines of
DOC
TYPE in my default html and template pages and go back to the good 'ole
"quirks
mode" where stuff actually worked. I have yet to see a modern browser
not
display my pages done in quirks mode correctly. I'm sure they are out
there,
but I'm not going to worry about the small percentage of people who use
a
special browsers. http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm 77% of
all users
use IE6. Another 11% use IE5. That leaves 12% to be split up with
another 7 (or
more) different browsers that might or might not work! That's not enough
to
worry about loosing the 100% high over. Cheers.

100% height table is agreed upon with ("in quirks mode"):

IE, all versions that I know of
Netscape 4+
FireFox
Safari
Opera

How's that for an agreement?

Murray *TMM* wrote:

It's not likely, since there is no agreement on what 100% means.

Not good enough. The problem is what constitutes 100% height when the table
extends beyond the bottom margin of the viewport.

Like I said - I think it's unlikely that you will see this added....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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ANSWERS
==================
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==================

"seb" <sebnewyork (AT) earhlink (DOT) netTakeThisOut> wrote

100% height table is agreed upon with ("in quirks mode"):

IE, all versions that I know of
Netscape 4+
FireFox
Safari
Opera

How's that for an agreement?

Murray *TMM* wrote:

It's not likely, since there is no agreement on what 100% means.