old browser versions...who cares?

Those of you who have read any of my previous posts know that I am a NEWBIE at
all of this..but I HAVE to ask this question....

I keep hearing people say...Watch out, that technique doesnt work in older
versions of XXX browser. Or "it only works in newr versions of xxx browser".
But with the EASE of use that all of the browsers employ anymore and the
virtual one click update features etc, WHY WHY WHY do we need to worry about
someone who might use Netscape version 4 or older (as one example). I wouldnt
DREAM of using anything on my computer older than 1 version.

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old? Do we really need
to worry about it? Seems like we should worry more about how the NEXT version
will read the code (is that proper terminology? lol).

Just wondering.

I recently got my webmaster/ web software dev certification - during that year
when we made web site (or in some discusions).. the older browser
question/issue did come up. In fact one of our assignments was to make our
site NS 4.0 compliant or even earlier than that if I remember correctly. The
reason is that some schools etc can't afford newer computers or for whatever
reason don't upgrade . I do believe though- that everyone should be up to
speed and if you have an old browser - than you are missing out!
R

It's a simple question of doing what's right for your site's audience. Of
course people around here are techie and up to date on these things, but the
average person isn't. Not only do they not have any idea what browser
version they use, but you'd be surprised how many are using old machines
with Windows 95 or 98 and Netscape 4.78 or whatever. If you're sure your
audience is all up to date, don't support them. There are people around here
who work hard to support every browser. Others ignore old ones. Hell, 90% of
the PC market is Windows, should you support Mac versions? You have to make
a lot of decisions about your audience when you create web sites.....

MD



A.H.O. wrote:

Those of you who have read any of my previous posts know that I am a
NEWBIE at all of this..but I HAVE to ask this question....

I keep hearing people say...Watch out, that technique doesnt work in
older versions of XXX browser. Or "it only works in newr versions of
xxx browser". But with the EASE of use that all of the browsers
employ anymore and the virtual one click update features etc, WHY WHY
WHY do we need to worry about someone who might use Netscape version
4 or older (as one example). I wouldnt DREAM of using anything on my
computer older than 1 version.

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old? Do we
really need to worry about it? Seems like we should worry more about
how the NEXT version will read the code (is that proper terminology?
lol).

Just wondering.

"A.H.O." <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

<snip>

WHY WHY WHY do we need to worry about
someone who might use Netscape version 4 or older (as one example). I
wouldnt
DREAM of using anything on my computer older than 1 version.

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old? Do we really
need
to worry about it? Seems like we should worry more about how the NEXT
version
will read the code (is that proper terminology? lol).

Just wondering.

Some people:
can't afford new hardware that software requires
are more comfortable with familiar software
don't know how to upgrade and don't like asking
realise that new does not necessarily mean better

Recent legislation also means that if your web site is part of a service
that you provide, then that site has to be accessible to all. This is so
people with older browsers can receive the same level of service as the
people that live in Utopia.

I hope this goes some way to answering your questions.

Regards

Terry

A.H.O. said::
....

WHY do we need to worry about someone who might use Netscape version
4 or older (as one example). I wouldnt DREAM of using anything on my
computer older than 1 version.

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old? Do we
really need to worry about it?

Here are some browser/OS/rez stats that you can chew over

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

--
turtle - (a.k.a. Mike)
=================================
"Never enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man"

A.H.O. <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote:

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old? Do we
really need to worry about it?

Yes, If you care about accessibility - and if you are in europe you will
be made to care about accessibility if you are a business - there are
people who use particular browsers because of some adaption to their
disability and can't upgrade to the browser de jour at a whim, for
example there are some blind computer users who use the text only
browser lynx because it enables them to have web pages read to them by
some additional software.

/J\

.oO(A.H.O.)

I keep hearing people say...Watch out, that technique doesnt work in older
versions of XXX browser. Or "it only works in newr versions of xxx browser".

As long as the site doesn't fail completely in older versions this is
not really a problem. For example I use CSS3 selectors from time to
time, even if Mozilla is the only browser today that supports them.

WHY WHY WHY do we need to worry about
someone who might use Netscape version 4 or older (as one example). I wouldnt
DREAM of using anything on my computer older than 1 version.

Don't think all people think the same or are able to do the same things
like you. Don't even think they all run high-end computers. Ever tried
running a recent browser on an old 386/486? And there are millions of
old machines out there.

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old?

Yep, many. But it doesn't really matter, _why_ someone uses such old
stuff, it's enough to know _that_ it's still used. Personally I don't
build websites for browsers (only exception is to fix some major issues
or bugs with workarounds), but for people. I don't care what user agent
they prefer.

Do we really need
to worry about it?

You should.

With NN4 it's pretty simple - write standards compliant stylesheets and
hide them from NN4 (@import-rule or media-attributes). Then - if you
like - you can provide a simple extra CSS/JSSS just for NN4. That's it.

Seems like we should worry more about how the NEXT version
will read the code (is that proper terminology? lol).

Browsers are becoming more stable and more standards compliant with
every release (except for MS-IE *g*), so this is not really a problem.
Of course you should worry if you use broken code that relies on a
certain buggy browser behaviour instead of correct and valid code.

Micha

"terry" <terryuse (AT) btopenworld (DOT) com> wrote

Recent legislation also means that if your web site is part of a service
that you provide, then that site has to be accessible to all. This is so
people with older browsers can receive the same level of service as the
people that live in Utopia.

Say what? For one thing accessibility has to do with people with physical
limitations, not with older browsers. And the only legislation I am aware of
affects site which are involved with Certain govt agencies or funded by the
govt. Can you elaborate on the legislation of which you speak?

I keep hearing people say...Watch out, that technique doesnt work in
older
versions of XXX browser. Or "it only works in newr versions of xxx
browser".
But with the EASE of use that all of the browsers employ anymore and the
virtual one click update features etc, WHY WHY WHY do we need to worry
about
someone who might use Netscape version 4 or older (as one example). I
wouldnt
DREAM of using anything on my computer older than 1 version.

Because *you* are not the same as *everyone else*.

You need to design for your customer's target audience. While it's certainly
true that on desktop computers, there's less of the older browsers in uses,
there's also more alternative browser type applications...PDAs, Cell phones,
text browsers, screen readers, screen scrapers, RSS feeds, etc.

Ultimately, accessibility is the key issue, and an accessible site, when
done right, is independant of any browser.

Are there reasons that people still have browsers that old? Do we really
need
to worry about it?

Depends on your site's audience.

Seems like we should worry more about how the NEXT version
will read the code (is that proper terminology? lol).

If you are coding to standards, you should have no worries about newer
browsers.

-Darrel

Say what? For one thing accessibility has to do with people with physical
limitations, not with older browsers.

No, accessibility is about both. And more. It's about making your web site
accessible INDEPENDANT of physical, software, or hardware limitations as
best you can.

And the only legislation I am aware of
affects site which are involved with Certain govt agencies or funded by
the
govt. Can you elaborate on the legislation of which you speak?

It depends on what country you are in. In the US, we only have to make sites
accessible if you are a government entity or receive contracts from
government entities. There's also a gigantic loophole that pretty much makes
it irrelevant. However, making things accessible is simply good for business
period, so hopefully people will catch on before we have more heavier handed
legislation.

-Darrel