It never ends. . . .

I haven't been to the MM web site for extensions etc for about a month or two because of the Flash crap they now have.

I wanted to share with you all something I found reading a computer magazine teh otehr day. They were discussion hos appaled MM was with the "skip flash intro" buttons on web pagews offering Flash desings. It turns out that 99% of people were skipping them, and other annoying, slow, clunky Flash crap, in order to, by survey, (1) stop being distrated by moving pictures when they are trying to read or find information or (2) because they don't want to see the stupid movie everytime, or anytime, they go to the site.

The fix? Take out the "skip intro" etc buttons. hahahaaha. As you have all seen, when you right click on a Flash movie these days, many times you have no way to stop it--you simply get the "settings" panel (which does not allow you to turn it off).

The stupid Extensions pages, all in Flash, of course, are still crappy as ever, hard to find stuff, clunky, "page cannot be found" etc., etc.

It is amazing indeed. It is amazing that a company that touts web design cannot build a functional website, but, instead, adds clunky, Flash content to make up for it (see the home page with the moving fading hands in the air that you cannot turn off, that you see every time you go there, that is purely "flashey" and has no function).

For those of you who grew up on MM products, I feel or you. For the rest of us using Adobe products, except for the web design tool, the solution is obvious:www.adobe.com.

Their webdesign tool comes with all their extensions loaded, or you can choose to load them on demand, and the site is virtually Flashless, no distrating movies! Nice, fast, searchable pages and good forums, the way we all know web design SHOULD be done! Check it out. And their Flash tool, called Adobe LiveMotion is easier to use than Flash and produces the Flash format, albeit it is a little less advanced than Flash. But for 95% of Flash type needs, LiveMotion does it. I don't think you could build a entire nation in LiveMotion, like MM has done on their site, but then . . . .

Last, for years I have LOVED MM. They gave us what we wanted, but now we get what they want us to have. I don't blame MM tho. See it this way. In five years, much of the web and internet is going to be MS Net, which will use MS proprietary scripts and of course MS Front page to inplement them. Sure, you will have your WYSIWYG editors, but for true integration, it's gonna be FP with MS NET. (Good bye Cold Fusion, and other related products.)

MM knows this, so they are trying to embed as deeply as possible their only foothold, Flash. MS, as of yet, has not developed a Flash type program, so MM has the upper hand there, althoguh Adobe's LiveMotion is a very nice and comparable product.

Sooooooo, why not try to get people to build the entire web out of Flash? Of course the first step is to convert their entire site to Flash. I mean why else would a major company offer no access to millions of people unless they have the Flash plugin loaded, or Allow Flash movies to play? They are making a statement, that is why. The statement is that websites should be built with Flash, which overcomes compatability problems and browser quirks. But MS has a solution too, which is total compatibility and standardization--NET!

When MS takes over with their NET framework, watch out: For example, you can embed live date and time with a simple 20 character line in the head, why, that's great! But then you don't need MM Dreamweaver to use the extensions to put the java script in, because Net doesn't use java, it uses its own proprietary commands, easily placed with MSFP! (Couinters, passwords, slide shows, etc.)

Good luck MM with your Flash push. I hope it pays off for you because you have surely spent the time and money cramming it down the throats of the world. Remember, content is king, not eye candy. Why do you think they call it "Flash" instead of "Content"?


Ignore my stupidity--it's biological!

"DouglasWD" webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com wrote:

For those of you who grew up on MM products, I feel or you. For the rest of us using Adobe products, except for the web design tool, the solution is obvious:www.adobe.com.
Their webdesign tool comes with all their extensions loaded, or you can choose to load them on demand, and the site is virtually Flashless, no distrating movies! Nice, fast, searchable pages and good forums, the way we all know web design SHOULD be done! Check it out. And their Flash tool, called Adobe LiveMotion is easier to use than Flash and produces the Flash format, albeit it is a little less advanced than Flash. But for 95% of Flash type needs, LiveMotion does it. I don't think you could build a entire nation in LiveMotion, like MM has done on their site, but then . . . .

First complain about Flash - then tout a similar product... Is the
complaint about Flash or about the MM implementation of it? And what,
exactly, do you 'feel' for us about? Using a successful, well made
product that many here make a living off of?

Last, for years I have LOVED MM. They gave us what we wanted, but now we get what they want us to have.

Odd, I think MX Suite is a superior product in every way to the prior
product line (or are you complaining about the web site, not exactly
sure since you started on the web site in Flash, then segued into
competitive products.)

I don't blame MM tho. See it this way. In five years, much of the web
and internet is going to be MS Net,

LOL ... right. First the web site, then (I think) the product line and
now predictions about the future.

which will use MS proprietary scripts and of course MS Front page to
inplement them.

I would think any forward thinking business would be able to implement
anything MS implements in MS Front Page. Companies like Adobe and MM
won't let their products fall into oblivion by neglecting to implement
the needed code. The proprietary scripts can be written many ways (just
like DHTML scroller or menus - dozens exist, dozens of scripts to
accomplish the same functionality will be made)

Sure, you will have your WYSIWYG editors, but for true integration,
it's gonna be FP with MS NET.

So Visual Studio is going to die? (you do know what Visual Studio is,
right?)

(Good bye Cold Fusion, and other related products.)

Like PHP, Java and such? I wouldn't recommend prediction as a profession.

Sooooooo, why not try to get people to build the entire web out of Flash?

This is new?

I mean why else would a major company offer no access to millions of people unless they have the Flash plugin loaded, or Allow Flash movies to play?

On the bottom of their web site, they have a little link
(http://www.macromedia.com/help/accessibility.html) which allows the
content of their site to be viewed in HTML. The only part which I can't
get in HTML (so far) is the exchange - which markets to web designers
who (I imagine) can handle the Flash plugin requirement for the
exchange. Perhaps, along with perdictions, I would rule out critiquing
inadequacies in web site design as a profession.

They are making a statement, that is why. The statement is that websites should be built with Flash,

A statement that a site's content can be delivered multiple ways, I
guess (although since you missed the accessibility link above, I have to
assume you really would need to revise your complaint)

which overcomes compatability problems and browser quirks. But MS has a solution too, which is total compatibility and standardization--NET!

And we all see how well MS implements their policies, I don't think
anyone has anything to worry about. As soon as MS implements a standard
which requires IE, the web community, at large, will ignore it. To
further drive that point home, very few products or scripts use IE only
proprietary effects because they either fail bad in non-IE browsers or
aren't supported and no insurance they won't change. Not a brilliant
business decision to follow that path. MS lacks the ability to force a
non-complaint standard (outside the w3c) which will take hold in the web
community as plenty of developers won't learn it.

When MS takes over with their NET framework, watch out:

'takes over' - Oh wait, is this a joke thread, I missed the [OT] in the
subject line...

For example, you can embed live date and time with a simple 20 character line in the head, why, that's great!

WOW, BEHOLD THE AMAZING POWER OF .NET!!! It can insert a live date and
time on the web with 20 characters - be afraid, be very afraid...

But then you don't need MM Dreamweaver to use the extensions to put the java script in, because Net doesn't use java, it uses its own proprietary commands, easily placed with MSFP! (Couinters, passwords, slide shows, etc.)

Are you saying Macromedia Dreamweaver Extensions won't work in putting
in the scripting code in Microsoft FrontPage .NET version? Having coded
both FrontPage Addins and Extensions, I can assure you they are 100%
different and always will be. And your claim than FP will *come* with
*everything* everyone needs is humorous. Nor will .NET.

So, your rant went from the Flash implementation on to the MX product
line, then to the accessability - you went from directing comments to MM
and (it seems) to the developers without consistency. Others have
mentioned the lack of detail to which your complaint was hastily
composed and I think your reasoning is lacking, absent and emotion
driven without factual supporting data.

Ignore my stupidity--it's biological!

It would be much easier to ignore it if it wasn't on display.
Paul

Are you saying Macromedia Dreamweaver Extensions won't work in putting
in the scripting code in Microsoft FrontPage .NET version?

theres a FrontPage.NET?

--
Ron

In article <bet0em$s64$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com>,
ebonneville (AT) remove_montanaresearch (DOT) com says...

Learn to spell. Learn proper grammar. Learn to write concise,
compelling prose and people might pay attention. Jeez.

Learn to reply without quoting the entire post.

I agree with Douglas 100%.
Macromedia is trying to force the Web in a direction it does not want to
go. 'Rich Internet Applications' are not superior to plain old HTML in
any way.

--
Regards,
Ian Firth

"> For those of you who grew up on MM products, I feel or you. For the rest
of us using Adobe products, except for the web design tool, the solution is
obvious:www.adobe.com.

Actually I have had more problems with Adobe service, especially the
Knowledge Base and "help" search engine, than with any other site or company
there is. The forums are little help and also have the worst search engine
on the planet. (A search for "Framemaker" brings up articles that have
NOTHING to do with Framemaker. No I am not exaggerating.) Not to mention
having to take three steps that lead you back to the beginning. Macromedia
may be touting their own products, but at least you can usually find an
answer to your question.

I have used Adobe for years and only condone three products: Frame, Acrobat,
and Pagemaker. Nothing touches the first two and Page is cheaper than Quark.
Their video product demo wouldn't even LOAD properly on my PC and the
interface might as well have been blank it was so unintuitive. Don't even
get me started on their plugins. Don't even get me started on the prices.
Don't even get me started on the lack of customer service. Please do not
sell Adobe products in an arena they quite simply do not belong in.
Documentation? Yes, and only cuz no one else can touch them. Anything else?
NO WAY.

Let's face it: Macromedia runs the web development show in many ways and
they can do whatever they want to their website. I agree a flash-free
version would be nice, but that is my wish for all Flash sites. And sites
that rely on ANY plugin. But this is the Way of the Web. C'est la vie.