Layers and Tables

I know this question has been asked many many times.. but I'll have to ask
again. I'm a newbie and i started whizzing along making my site.. and
noticed there is the Layer option.. this is very cool, gives me the power to
put anything anywhere.. very nice. I wanted to create a border around some
of my Layers and figured creating tables would be the easiest.. Well after
fixing my layers into the table cells, i previewed and everything looked
great until i maximized the page. Everything was off centered. Is there any
way around this? What's the best procedure of doing something like this? I'm
assuming using Layer (whata bummer) is bad because the location is not
defined. I tried using percentages, but they don't work perfectly, it is
still off when centering with in table cells. Am i just supposed to use
Layers or Tables, but not both? I hate the way Tables work, they just don't
do it for me. The layers options is sooo much easier.. reminds me of Power
Point. OK Thanks!

suggest use CSS to define a border around a Layer (<div> tag)
Can re-use the same border effect on other Layers. Or have unique border
effects.

You need to do a bit of reading before deciding which way to lay out your
page.
First - don't put layers into a table cell - can do weird things to your
page - as you have found out. There are scenarios that you can use a div in
a table - however, you may to have a bit of design time under your belt

First read the layer laws here:
http://thepattysite.com/layer_laws.cfm

Then have a look at this example of how layers work
http://www.roast-horse.com/tutorials/_tutorials/css_centered_content/index.html

You will also need to get your head around using stylesheets - more info:
www.makocss.com

There is nothing wrong with using tables btw. You just need to learn how to
use them. Check out the table tutorial in my sig - will teach you how to
build a flexible table layout - can't be any easier .

--
Nadia
---------------
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"Frank Oh" <joblow (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

I know this question has been asked many many times.. but I'll have to ask
again. I'm a newbie and i started whizzing along making my site.. and
noticed there is the Layer option.. this is very cool, gives me the power
to
put anything anywhere.. very nice. I wanted to create a border around some
of my Layers and figured creating tables would be the easiest.. Well after
fixing my layers into the table cells, i previewed and everything looked
great until i maximized the page. Everything was off centered. Is there
any
way around this? What's the best procedure of doing something like this?
I'm
assuming using Layer (whata bummer) is bad because the location is not
defined. I tried using percentages, but they don't work perfectly, it is
still off when centering with in table cells. Am i just supposed to use
Layers or Tables, but not both? I hate the way Tables work, they just
don't
do it for me. The layers options is sooo much easier.. reminds me of Power
Point. OK Thanks!

Frank Oh wrote:

I know this question has been asked many many times.. but I'll have to ask
again. I'm a newbie and i started whizzing along making my site.. and
noticed there is the Layer option.. this is very cool, gives me the power to
put anything anywhere.. very nice.

Just be very aware of the draw back to using absolutely positioned
layers. They dont interact with each other. So in a senario where you
might have a layer beneath another layer both filled with text try then
zooming the text, via the browser, and see what happens. The text in the
top layer will encroach onto the text in the layer underneath. Table and
table cells will adjust to accomodate the text.


I wanted to create a border around some

of my Layers and figured creating tables would be the easiest..

Nope you should use css to do this. Draw a layer on your page and in the
properties inspector give it the id 'mylayer' (without quotes)

Next cut the code below, open DW's code view and paste directly before
the closing </head> tag. (its near the top)

<style>
#mylayer {
border: 1px solid #ab1;
}
</style>


If you do it correctly you will have a lime green border around your layer.

You should learn some basic css to control various elements on your page.

Well after

fixing my layers into the table cells, i previewed and everything looked
great until i maximized the page. Everything was off centered. Is there any
way around this? What's the best procedure of doing something like this?

Dont put layers into table cells. They produce unstable results.

I'm

assuming using Layer (whata bummer) is bad because the location is not
defined.

Yes the location is defined. Absolutely positioned layers, as you are
using, will take their co-ordinates from the top/left of the DW/browser
window.

Dreamweaver uses layers in very similar ways to CSS block positioning and in
fact they are almost indistinguishable. Instead of using layers use CSS
blocks instead and you will find that you can place backgrounds and tiled
images etc inside your blocks which you cant with layers (which is stupid).

Personally I think layers are the way to go for the future of web site
design combined with CSS styles and positioning. If they could only get the
stretching and centering sorted within brwoser windows for absolutely
positioned layers we would have a really flexible way to work without having
to use bloody tables at all. At the moment it seems that using tables is the
only easy way to get your web site to stretch within a browser window. You
can use relative CSS positioning but IMO this is far less user-friendly than
using absolutely positioned layers. If they can get absolute positioning to
work correctly we will have the functionality and flexibility of many
standard page layout programs for use on the web site design which would be
brilliant. Its completely daft how absolutely positioned layers dont move or
stretch with the browser window. It creates an off centred webpage that
looks really amateurish.

--
Regards

Nigel Stutt
Web Site Designer

Email: nstutt (AT) nstutt (DOT) freeserve.co.uk
Web: http://www.nstutt.freeserve.co.uk

"Osgood" <notavailable (AT) atthisaddress (DOT) com> wrote

Frank Oh wrote:

I know this question has been asked many many times.. but I'll have to
ask
again. I'm a newbie and i started whizzing along making my site.. and
noticed there is the Layer option.. this is very cool, gives me the
power to
put anything anywhere.. very nice.

Just be very aware of the draw back to using absolutely positioned
layers. They dont interact with each other. So in a senario where you
might have a layer beneath another layer both filled with text try then
zooming the text, via the browser, and see what happens. The text in the
top layer will encroach onto the text in the layer underneath. Table and
table cells will adjust to accomodate the text.


I wanted to create a border around some
of my Layers and figured creating tables would be the easiest..

Nope you should use css to do this. Draw a layer on your page and in the
properties inspector give it the id 'mylayer' (without quotes)

Next cut the code below, open DW's code view and paste directly before
the closing </head> tag. (its near the top)

style
#mylayer {
border: 1px solid #ab1;
}
/style


If you do it correctly you will have a lime green border around your
layer.

You should learn some basic css to control various elements on your page.

Well after
fixing my layers into the table cells, i previewed and everything looked
great until i maximized the page. Everything was off centered. Is there
any
way around this? What's the best procedure of doing something like this?

Dont put layers into table cells. They produce unstable results.

I'm
assuming using Layer (whata bummer) is bad because the location is not
defined.

Yes the location is defined. Absolutely positioned layers, as you are
using, will take their co-ordinates from the top/left of the DW/browser
window.

Thanks guys! You guys rock! I'll take a look at the CSS. Thanks again guys.

"Frank Oh" <joblow (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

I know this question has been asked many many times.. but I'll have to ask
again. I'm a newbie and i started whizzing along making my site.. and
noticed there is the Layer option.. this is very cool, gives me the power
to
put anything anywhere.. very nice. I wanted to create a border around some
of my Layers and figured creating tables would be the easiest.. Well after
fixing my layers into the table cells, i previewed and everything looked
great until i maximized the page. Everything was off centered. Is there
any
way around this? What's the best procedure of doing something like this?
I'm
assuming using Layer (whata bummer) is bad because the location is not
defined. I tried using percentages, but they don't work perfectly, it is
still off when centering with in table cells. Am i just supposed to use
Layers or Tables, but not both? I hate the way Tables work, they just
don't
do it for me. The layers options is sooo much easier.. reminds me of Power
Point. OK Thanks!

Nats:

you can place backgrounds and tiled
images etc inside your blocks which you cant with layers (which is
stupid).

Where do you get this idea?

If they could only get the
stretching and centering sorted within brwoser windows for absolutely
positioned layers we would have a really flexible way to work without
having
to use bloody tables at all.

Where do you get this idea?

You
can use relative CSS positioning but IMO this is far less user-friendly
than
using absolutely positioned layers.

Good grief. Where do you get this idea?

If they can get absolute positioning to
work correctly we will have the functionality and flexibility of many
standard page layout programs for use on the web site design which would
be
brilliant. Its completely daft how absolutely positioned layers dont move
or
stretch with the browser window. It creates an off centred webpage that
looks really amateurish.

Only happens when the pages are created by amateurs.

Check http://www.great-web-sights.com, and tell me how that works?

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Nats" <nstutt (AT) nstutt (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote

Dreamweaver uses layers in very similar ways to CSS block positioning and
in
fact they are almost indistinguishable. Instead of using layers use CSS
blocks instead and you will find that you can place backgrounds and tiled
images etc inside your blocks which you cant with layers (which is
stupid).

Personally I think layers are the way to go for the future of web site
design combined with CSS styles and positioning. If they could only get
the
stretching and centering sorted within brwoser windows for absolutely
positioned layers we would have a really flexible way to work without
having
to use bloody tables at all. At the moment it seems that using tables is
the
only easy way to get your web site to stretch within a browser window. You
can use relative CSS positioning but IMO this is far less user-friendly
than
using absolutely positioned layers. If they can get absolute positioning
to
work correctly we will have the functionality and flexibility of many
standard page layout programs for use on the web site design which would
be
brilliant. Its completely daft how absolutely positioned layers dont move
or
stretch with the browser window. It creates an off centred webpage that
looks really amateurish.

--
Regards

Nigel Stutt
Web Site Designer

Email: nstutt (AT) nstutt (DOT) freeserve.co.uk
Web: http://www.nstutt.freeserve.co.uk

"Osgood" <notavailable (AT) atthisaddress (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:cbtsd0$69d$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com...
Frank Oh wrote:

I know this question has been asked many many times.. but I'll have to
ask
again. I'm a newbie and i started whizzing along making my site.. and
noticed there is the Layer option.. this is very cool, gives me the
power to
put anything anywhere.. very nice.

Just be very aware of the draw back to using absolutely positioned
layers. They dont interact with each other. So in a senario where you
might have a layer beneath another layer both filled with text try then
zooming the text, via the browser, and see what happens. The text in the
top layer will encroach onto the text in the layer underneath. Table and
table cells will adjust to accomodate the text.


I wanted to create a border around some
of my Layers and figured creating tables would be the easiest..

Nope you should use css to do this. Draw a layer on your page and in the
properties inspector give it the id 'mylayer' (without quotes)

Next cut the code below, open DW's code view and paste directly before
the closing </head> tag. (its near the top)

style
#mylayer {
border: 1px solid #ab1;
}
/style


If you do it correctly you will have a lime green border around your
layer.

You should learn some basic css to control various elements on your
page.

Well after
fixing my layers into the table cells, i previewed and everything
looked
great until i maximized the page. Everything was off centered. Is
there
any
way around this? What's the best procedure of doing something like
this?

Dont put layers into table cells. They produce unstable results.

I'm
assuming using Layer (whata bummer) is bad because the location is not
defined.

Yes the location is defined. Absolutely positioned layers, as you are
using, will take their co-ordinates from the top/left of the DW/browser
window.

Dreamweaver uses layers in very similar ways to CSS block positioning
and in
fact they are almost indistinguishable.

DW layers *are* css positioned divs

Instead of using layers use CSS
blocks instead and you will find that you can place backgrounds and tiled
images etc inside your blocks which you cant with layers (which is
stupid).

layers *are* blocks (divs) you can apply any background you like.

Personally I think layers are the way to go for the future of web site
design combined with CSS styles and positioning.

i agree

If they could only get the
stretching and centering sorted within brwoser windows for absolutely
positioned layers we would have a really flexible way to work without
having
to use bloody tables at all.

'they'?
divs (and other block-level elements) are flexible by default, they
become fixed positions and sizes when you specify fixed positions and sizes.

At the moment it seems that using tables is the
only easy way to get your web site to stretch within a browser window.

incorrect

You can use relative CSS positioning but IMO this is far less
user-friendly than
using absolutely positioned layers.

i think you've misunderstood the meaning of relative, absolute, fixed
and static positions, check the css specs.

Its completely daft how absolutely positioned layers dont move or
stretch with the browser window.

so don't absolutely position them, see above

It creates an off centred webpage that
looks really amateurish.

not if you understand what's going on here.

joe






Nats wrote:

Dreamweaver uses layers in very similar ways to CSS block positioning and in
fact they are almost indistinguishable. Instead of using layers use CSS
blocks instead and you will find that you can place backgrounds and tiled
images etc inside your blocks which you cant with layers (which is stupid).

Personally I think layers are the way to go for the future of web site
design combined with CSS styles and positioning. If they could only get the
stretching and centering sorted within brwoser windows for absolutely
positioned layers we would have a really flexible way to work without having
to use bloody tables at all. At the moment it seems that using tables is the
only easy way to get your web site to stretch within a browser window. You
can use relative CSS positioning but IMO this is far less user-friendly than
using absolutely positioned layers. If they can get absolute positioning to
work correctly we will have the functionality and flexibility of many
standard page layout programs for use on the web site design which would be
brilliant. Its completely daft how absolutely positioned layers dont move or
stretch with the browser window. It creates an off centred webpage that
looks really amateurish.