How long do you all spend on design?

Hi,
just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when
doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I seem
to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too much
time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before I
was happy with it, but only billed half that. I'm not that confident on the
design side so it takes awhile before I'm happy with it. Is this average or
an outrageously long time?? Or maybe even not long at all?

Karen J

I think spending 2 days to get it right is just fine, I have often spent longer (and I mean MUCH longer!!!). For me alot depents on how much the client is involved. As design is based TOTALLY on opinion the old saying "How long is a peice of string" comes to mind. Don't forget, that if you don't bill them you won't get the money. If in doubt Charge More, they may notice, and argue, and then, you may reduce.


Thanks In Advance
Patrick

Two days is just about the time i spend on a layout, sometimes more, sometimes less.. If you got a client that keeps changing his mind and wants everything different than last time you spoke to him, charge him!
You say youonly charged one day.. why did you spend two days then? It just didnt look good enough? The second day you probably made it better for your own satisfaction but also so that he had a very good looking website.. at the end, he will profit from it, so charge him. You are doing the work for him, so he should pay for it. You can always go down a bit when he starts complaining. But 50% before he starts complaining.. Thats a lot!

Karen J wrote:

Hi,
just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when
doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I seem
to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too much
time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before I
was happy with it, but only billed half that.

We usually spend as much time as we put on the contract the client
signed. And we bill for it. If we need more time because the client
changes his mind all the time, we have him OK that, and then bill for it
too. Nobody thanks you if you work for free.

I'm not that confident on the design side so it takes awhile before
I'm happy with it.

Does this mean you're not all that experienced, or that you're just
extremely critical of your work? If you're not experienced, you might
consider giving your client a "learning discount", e.g. only charge 3/4
of your time. I think that would be fair to all involved. But if you're
just extremely critical of your work, charge it all - they hired you
because you're a perfectionist.


Matthias

I agree with the others. Design takes time. It is the hardest part because
you usually are starting from scratch or trying to make a client's far out
wishes not only reality, but WOW reality. Creativity takes effort and hours.
Otherwise everyone would be doing it. Charge for your talent. If you don't
you are only cheating yourself and your talent's value :-)



"Karen J" <karen.ward (AT) xtra (DOT) co.nz> wrote

Hi,
just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side
when
doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I
seem
to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too
much
time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before
I
was happy with it, but only billed half that. I'm not that confident on
the
design side so it takes awhile before I'm happy with it. Is this average
or
an outrageously long time?? Or maybe even not long at all?

Karen J

In article <bf2ua8$mad$1 (AT) forums (DOT) macromedia.com>, karen.ward (AT) xtra (DOT) co.nz
says...

just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when
doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for??

4 weeks for my last site. http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ft/
I don't bill for anything until I have a design the client is happy
with. I made 6 different mockups and one complete site until that
happened.

When we finally settled on a 'look' I spent 4 weeks designing the
graphics (140), database (9 tables, 62 columns), populating it (270
products, by hand, they had no existing data I could use), designing the
site pages, admin pages and content management system and correcting
product photos (80 so far).

Now they're not sure if they want to pay my measly sum of $3k for it,
saying it's too expensive. They're also backing out of the next 3 sites
I already starting designing for them.

I'm done creating sites for friends

--
Regards,
Ian Firth

Ian Firth <if (AT) divsoft (DOT) com> wrote in news:MPG.197fd7856f21e2e9896f7
@forums.macromedia.com:

Now they're not sure if they want to pay my measly sum of $3k for it,
saying it's too expensive. They're also backing out of the next 3 sites
I already starting designing for them.

I'm done creating sites for friends

I feel your pain, Ian. $3,000 is a bargain for all that you produced - they
should feel lucky at getting such a bargain.


--
Steve
Hong Kong

Karen,

My solution is to keep a detailed time log, and write down every hour I spend working on a project and exactly what I did when.

I go back and look at these logs when I am quoting a new job, and I now have a good idea what to charge.

Sometimes I spend 20 hours on conceptualization, sometimes I dive right into development and the design arrives on it own. Either way, I charge for the finished product (and the number of estimated hours agreed upon in my written proposal)

I sometimes find that I have spent too much time "tweaking," and I have to make up for lost time by becoming very efficent with development.

Another good idea is to create a "swipe file" of designs that you like, using these designs for inspiration.

I agree with an earlier comment: you're the web designer, and you should be paid for your creativity and your dev expertise. Just make sure that can justify that time to a client with a time log if asked.

I recommend that you get a copy of Cameron Foote's "the Business Side of Creativity." Lots of good information that will help you with issues like this.

Good luck,

hair on fire guy