CSS vs Tables

Hi guys,
Are there any benefits in creating a CSS tableless web site instead of using
tables to place the elements.
Is it as professional to use tables and CSS to format the info inside it?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

roby

if you have a generic layout through out your site then use css as it can
have a huge impact on page size and performance.

regards

kenny







"Roby" <razubel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Hi guys,
Are there any benefits in creating a CSS tableless web site instead of
using
tables to place the elements.
Is it as professional to use tables and CSS to format the info inside it?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

roby

It depends on who you ask. I prefer CSS-based layouts, and you might, too
after playing with them for a while. Don't give up too easily. You'll have
to shed a lot of old habits and misconceptions. If, in the end, you still
prefer using tables, then only a few people will want to shoot you. I doubt
your customers will be viewing the source on your page and taking their
business elsewhere if they disagree with your layout habits.


"Roby" <razubel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Hi guys,
Are there any benefits in creating a CSS tableless web site instead of
using
tables to place the elements.
Is it as professional to use tables and CSS to format the info inside it?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

roby

I don't know if it's wrong of me but I don't even bother with tables. I just
got into web design about a year ago. And CSS was the up and coming thing. So
I guess I didn't want to learn any habits (good or bad) that I would have to
unlearn in order to accomplish good css.

This topic is always touchy with some people. Pro tables or Pro CSS. At this
point I think the possibilties are pretty much endless with css and where it's
heading.

I don't know if it's wrong of me but I don't even bother with tables. I
just
got into web design about a year ago. And CSS was the up and coming
thing. So
I guess I didn't want to learn any habits (good or bad) that I would have
to
unlearn in order to accomplish good css.

In my opinion, this is unfortunate. You need to know how to build stable
tables - it will save your bacon one of these days.

Get pragmatic - use what works. Tables work and in some cases are the
optimal choice.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Mack879w" <kassab.j (AT) deptford (DOT) k12.nj.us> wrote

I don't know if it's wrong of me but I don't even bother with tables. I
just
got into web design about a year ago. And CSS was the up and coming
thing. So
I guess I didn't want to learn any habits (good or bad) that I would have
to
unlearn in order to accomplish good css.

This topic is always touchy with some people. Pro tables or Pro CSS. At
this
point I think the possibilties are pretty much endless with css and where
it's
heading.

Mack879w wrote:

I don't know if it's wrong of me but I don't even bother with tables. I just
got into web design about a year ago. And CSS was the up and coming thing. So
I guess I didn't want to learn any habits (good or bad) that I would have to
unlearn in order to accomplish good css.

This topic is always touchy with some people. Pro tables or Pro CSS. At this
point I think the possibilties are pretty much endless with css and where it's
heading.


It isn't necessarily either or - that's like saying I just got a

driver's license and convertibles are all the rage right now, so I don't
bother with trying to learn how to use a stick shift. Doesn't make sense
- you are comparing two things that could be the same but also sometimes
are not mutually exclusive.

Tables are perfect for tabular data, where similar items are displayed
in an organized manner horizontally or vertically... (bank balances,
index of photos with captions and links, contact information, etc) Some
folks use them for layout purposes; some don't.

While I find CSS better for that, --there are times when reverting to a
table structure is a) more efficient, b) better for the budget, and c)
easier for the client.

Tables are a valid way of presenting content....so you'd better know how
to use them.

my 2cents
donna

Murray *TMM* wrote:

I don't know if it's wrong of me but I don't even bother with
tables. I just
got into web design about a year ago. And CSS was the up and coming
thing. So
I guess I didn't want to learn any habits (good or bad) that I would
have to
unlearn in order to accomplish good css.

In my opinion, this is unfortunate. You need to know how to build
stable tables - it will save your bacon one of these days.

Get pragmatic - use what works. Tables work and in some cases are the
optimal choice.

The "optimal choice" would be for tabular data; and this requires *good
table markup* which has absolutely nothing to do with the way people use
tables for layout.
IMO, if one starts with good habits, then one can tackles tabular data with
a much better angle.
Think about it, in real world web design, how many times do you need a
table? So why spending time to learn about it? If you have to use a table
once in a blue moon and you don't know how to, then you can rely on some
very good tools out there that create *clean, accessible* table markup for
you.

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Spoken like a true zealot.

Just remember, you went through tables to get where you are now.

Building solid tables is an essential element of being a webdeveloper....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================


"Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com" <thierry (AT) 212utah (DOT) invalid> wrote

Murray *TMM* wrote:
I don't know if it's wrong of me but I don't even bother with
tables. I just
got into web design about a year ago. And CSS was the up and coming
thing. So
I guess I didn't want to learn any habits (good or bad) that I would
have to
unlearn in order to accomplish good css.

In my opinion, this is unfortunate. You need to know how to build
stable tables - it will save your bacon one of these days.

Get pragmatic - use what works. Tables work and in some cases are the
optimal choice.

The "optimal choice" would be for tabular data; and this requires *good
table markup* which has absolutely nothing to do with the way people use
tables for layout.
IMO, if one starts with good habits, then one can tackles tabular data
with
a much better angle.
Think about it, in real world web design, how many times do you need a
table? So why spending time to learn about it? If you have to use a table
once in a blue moon and you don't know how to, then you can rely on some
very good tools out there that create *clean, accessible* table markup for
you.

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Murray *TMM* wrote:

Spoken like a true zealot.
Just remember, you went through tables to get where you are now.
Building solid tables is an essential element of being a
webdeveloper....

I do not speak as a zealot, I speak from *experience*.
I started with Drumbeat, and the only code you could see with this software
was the javascript used with "contracts"; the HTML markup was hidden from
the designer. Then I moved to DW and relied on the Table tool to "draw my
layouts".
Now I hand-code everything but my tables (for the reason I mentioned
earlier).
Don't you think that writing a few structural elements is a no brainer
compared to good table markup? I do, and I'm not ashamed to say so...
You see, I'm not a zealot, I'm just somebody who doesn't feel confortable
with tables.


--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

The "optimal choice" would be for tabular data;

See, I want to have text and images in my tabular data. And make it look
not too boring, because my users are not just screen readers, but also
humans. What is the result? a Table layout web site.

Think about it, in real world web design, how many times do you need a
table?

Just about everyday. Just to keep the 'real world web design' real:
'float' is not even properly supported by the Major Browser.

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

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