CSS vs Tables

I don't think one can *know* what float was intended to do, other than to
allow adjacent content to flow around the element as an island in a river.

I think we can infer it was to allow text to flow around an image, magazine
style. But that image can easily become a "Recent News" headline box, a
sidebar to the article, etc. And I certainly wouldn't make the leap to
suggest that the float was intended ONLY to allow text to flow around the
box in those situations. It was a solution to a specific problem.
Solutions it provides to any other problems are bonuses. And who doesn't
like a bonus?

Lionstone wrote:

I don't think one can *know* what float was intended to do, other
than to allow adjacent content to flow around the element as an
island in a river.

I think we can infer it was to allow text to flow around an image,
magazine style. But that image can easily become a "Recent News"
headline box, a sidebar to the article, etc. And I certainly
wouldn't make the leap to suggest that the float was intended ONLY to
allow text to flow around the box in those situations. It was a
solution to a specific problem. Solutions it provides to any other
problems are bonuses. And who doesn't like a bonus?

Floats are a very powerful tool. And IMO using CSS for layout is not that
complicated.
I think the issue is that people worry about bugs, hacks, etc. rather than
learning about the box model and taking advantage of the "flow" using
margin, padding without much need of the position property. And when you get
this simple concept, you find out that using CSS for layout gives you much
more freedom than tables:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid.asp


--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Murray *TMM* wrote:

I seem to remember Al saying that 'float' was never meant to be used to
place two <divs> side-by-side. However I have no idea what its original
intended purpose was.


I definitely don't remember him saying this. One could also say that float
was not intended to make list items line up horizontally, but he does that.

Humm...something has stuck in my memory that he did say floats were
originally intended for something else. As youre much older than me and
your memory is failing fast I'm inclined to trust mine on this one

I don't think one can *know* what float was intended to do, other than to
allow adjacent content to flow around the element as an island in a river.

Maybe, I don't know enough to argue on that one.

We do agree on this, remarkably.

--
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"Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com" <thierry (AT) 212utah (DOT) invalid> wrote

Lionstone wrote:
I don't think one can *know* what float was intended to do, other
than to allow adjacent content to flow around the element as an
island in a river.

I think we can infer it was to allow text to flow around an image,
magazine style. But that image can easily become a "Recent News"
headline box, a sidebar to the article, etc. And I certainly
wouldn't make the leap to suggest that the float was intended ONLY to
allow text to flow around the box in those situations. It was a
solution to a specific problem. Solutions it provides to any other
problems are bonuses. And who doesn't like a bonus?

Floats are a very powerful tool. And IMO using CSS for layout is not that
complicated.
I think the issue is that people worry about bugs, hacks, etc. rather than
learning about the box model and taking advantage of the "flow" using
margin, padding without much need of the position property. And when you
get
this simple concept, you find out that using CSS for layout gives you much
more freedom than tables:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid.asp


--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com wrote:

Floats are a very powerful tool. And IMO using CSS for layout is not that
complicated.
I think the issue is that people worry about bugs, hacks, etc. rather than
learning about the box model and taking advantage of the "flow" using
margin, padding without much need of the position property. And when you get
this simple concept, you find out that using CSS for layout gives you much
more freedom than tables:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid.asp

I concur with that in general, except where I can whack in a table,
within a <div> structure, a lot quicker

..oO(Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com)

Actually, I believe this thread does not contain much information about the
pros/cons of the 2 methods.
If it did, you would not be confused - you'd know that "CSS-P" is the way to
go

There are more ways than just tables or "CSS-P". It's not just black and
white.

One important thing to remember from this thread, is that once in a while,
Murray is wrong

A bug in the iAmRight() function. Already fixed in the CVS version.

Micha

..oO(Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com)

One think we know *for sure* is that tables were *not meant* for layout

IMHO tables are a layout tool by definition. They are just one way to
present a bunch of data. A list would be another for example.

Micha

Michael Fesser wrote:

.oO(Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com)

One think we know *for sure* is that tables were *not meant* for
layout

IMHO tables are a layout tool by definition. They are just one way to
present a bunch of data. A list would be another for example.

Tables were not meant for layout, but to display tabular data. That's why
the "purists" say they are hacks when used for layout.
Anyway, I think we're talking "page layout"; so I wouldn't put lists in the
same category as tables. In the debate "tables vs. DIVs" we're talking about
using meaningless elements to *wrap content* to define a layout.

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

About those DIVs,
is it the same if I create them using the layers tool in DW?

Roby


"Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com" <thierry (AT) 212utah (DOT) invalid> wrote

Michael Fesser wrote:
.oO(Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com)

One think we know *for sure* is that tables were *not meant* for
layout

IMHO tables are a layout tool by definition. They are just one way to
present a bunch of data. A list would be another for example.

Tables were not meant for layout, but to display tabular data. That's why
the "purists" say they are hacks when used for layout.
Anyway, I think we're talking "page layout"; so I wouldn't put lists in
the
same category as tables. In the debate "tables vs. DIVs" we're talking
about
using meaningless elements to *wrap content* to define a layout.

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com wrote:

One think we know *for sure* is that tables were *not meant* for layout

Do we?

A blast from the past:
http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/layout_tables/history.htm

--
James M. Shook
http://www.jshook.com