CS4 details on Adobe website

"David Powers" <david (AT) example (DOT) com> wrote

Al Sparber - PVII wrote:
Your first and second paragraphs contradicted each other - in terms of
the cascade, the second would seem to have counteracted the first, which
was the essence of my point :-)

I disagree. I prefaced my original statement with a conditional clause,
"If you work with external files, such as style sheets and JavaScript
files..."

Perhaps, I should have added, "... and your name's not Al Sparber..." ;-)

I'm not that unique ;-)
Maybe your point would have been clearer had you combined the thoughts from
the first and second paragraphs into a single statement. Now I'm beginning
to sound like David Powers :-)

No big deal. I do agree that DW CS4 is the most significant release since
MX, but very likely for reasons far different than most :-)

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators

In the US, we pay much more for the exact same name-brand drug
(manufactured in the US and exported) than you do in Europe. I feel
your pain... well, at least I did before I popped that expensive pill.

No big deal. I do agree that DW CS4 is the most significant release since
MX, but very likely for reasons far different than most :-)

Hi Al

I dont normally frequent these forums now that I spend most of my time in
Visual Studio 2008. However I do use DW for CSS, layout and site management
features.

Just wondering what the 'far different' reasons are that you allude to in your
post.

To be honest I dont see a great deal of new features in InDesign, Photoshop or
Dreamweaver that scream out "buy me" for the £600 that the Creative Suite
upgrade will cost here in the UK. I think I'll be missing this one out.

So does CS4 make any changes to the current server models? Does it add server models? Or is it just interface changes and other "fluff"?

"Significant release" sound like more then interface issues.

ASP.Net and JSP are removed from CS4. No other changes were made to server
scripting support as far as I know.

The changes to CS4 are far from fluff *FOR MY WORKFLOW*. Your mileage may
vary.

* Live View
Very nice. You get to see javascript working in DW's Design view, as
well as a real browser rendering of the page.
* Code hinting for Ajax and JavaScript frameworks
This is very nice to be able to load a JQuery framework and get
introspection and hinting.
* Related Files and Code Navigator
I use both of these every day - it's especially useful (Code Navigator)
when I'm trying to sort out the details of a styling conflict. And to have
one click access to all related files is a real timesaver for me.
* Adobe InContext Editing
This is pretty cool - it's a way to allow your clients to edit their
content without having to bring a desktop app into the picture.
* CSS best practices
Well, I'm not too sure what this means, but suffice it to say that CSS
support in Design view is much improved over CS3 (floats and complex
overflows are handled MUCH better).
* New user interface
This is important to those migrating in from GoLive, and for the overall
uniformity of the interface. For me it's pretty much of a yawner.
* HTML data sets
If you were the kind of person who is looking to leverage the power of
Ajax with data, this is important stuff. I'm not that kind of person,
really.
* Adobe Photoshop Smart Objects
This is nice for those who have used it with Photoshop/GoLive, as well
as those who wished there was a way to have changes to your Graphic layout
automatically propagate back into your web page. For me, it's only OK.
* Subversion integration
Don't use it.
* Adobe AIR authoring
Don't use it.

I'm surprised they didn't mention the screen sharing that's native in
CS4....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================


"cragthehack" <stephen (AT) stephencox (DOT) org> wrote

So does CS4 make any changes to the current server models? Does it add
server models? Or is it just interface changes and other "fluff"?

"Significant release" sound like more then interface issues.

the last "significant release" was from version 4 to MX. The rest have been
maintenance releases that we've had to pay through the nose for.

Ok thanks. So basically interface issues. And better CSS support. *yawn*

I use an outside css editor.I use DW just for prototyping. Using the built-in
MySQL server I can throw something up in minutes. I was hoping they add
support for SQLite. And more to the template system. Maybe even ruby and pythin
support. But no biggie since I can do it by hand. But it would've saved me
time. for the basics. I do like the List View featuer. But is it worth the
upgrade price?

And I do think Adobe is pricing out the little guy. Every developer I know
does most of his work by hand. DW is used for page layout and basics. But
beginner's use DW for far more. At 400 a pop, good luck. Also it's outrageous
to charge +2k for a suite these days. That's take huge balls.

I'll pass. First time too. I've been buying every DW/Flash update since
version 1. Hell, first time I saw Flash it was called Future Splash and
Macromedia brought it, and repackaged it as Flash. Yeah, I'm that old.

the last "significant release" was from version 4 to MX. The rest have
been maintenance releases that we've had to pay through the nose for.

I don't agree that MX 2004, 8 and CS3 were mere maintenance releases but the
leap from 4 to MX was the last upgrade cycle I got really excited about.

--
Regards

John Waller

"g-spot-web" <webforumsuser (AT) macromedia (DOT) com> wrote

No big deal. I do agree that DW CS4 is the most significant release since
MX, but very likely for reasons far different than most :-)

Hi Al

I dont normally frequent these forums now that I spend most of my time in
Visual Studio 2008. However I do use DW for CSS, layout and site
management
features.

Just wondering what the 'far different' reasons are that you allude to in
your
post.

To be honest I dont see a great deal of new features in InDesign,
Photoshop or
Dreamweaver that scream out "buy me" for the £600 that the Creative Suite
upgrade will cost here in the UK. I think I'll be missing this one out.

To me it signals a crossroads. Dreamweaver cannot go much farther without a
ground-up rewrite. Modern web design "best practices" depend on standards,
clean code, and accessibility. And CSS is, of course, a focal point. So is
sound structural markup. As a standalone application it costs $300 (U.S.),
yet applications costing a fraction of that are far more robust in CSS and
code writing support. Coda, Aptana, Topstyle Pro, StyleMaster, and even the
late and lamented Homesite are, arguably, superior in those areas.

Let's look at the new features Adobe touts:

*Code hinting for Ajax and JavaScript frameworks
-------------------
I guess that's a feature. But as someone fairly knowledgeable on scripting,
there are issues with hard-coding code introspection for open-source
libraries which, by nature, are constantly being updated. Adobe's own
(so-called) open source Spry is part of this "package". Look through the
archives of this forum and you'll see hundreds of posts advising people with
Spry problems or bugs to make sure they download the latest Spry version
update.

Score: Could be useful, but caveat emptor.

*Related Files and Code Navigator
--------------------
I like these features a lot, but I hope there is a way to turn off Related
Files if I want to restrict my tabs to html pages only sometimes.

Score: Good feature - if it can be turned off or modified.

*Adobe InContext Editing (prerelease)
--------------------
A "prerelease" feature, like Spry was (and apparently still is). Why stick a
prerelease feature in a finished application? This feature, if I read it
correctly would require using Adobe servers to store page content or require
that you allow Adobe to log on to your web server.

Score: I don't know. I wouldn't use it, but I'm sure some folks will. Heck,
it's not near as bad as storing your financial spreadsheets on Google :-)

*CSS best practices
--------------------
Adobe does not really explain what this "feature" does on its web site.

Score: Insufficient data

*Live View
-------------------
Programs like TopStyle Pro, Homesite, Aptana, and even Front Page have had
embedded "browser views" for years. TopStyle even allows you to view your
page in 2 browsers, side-by-side. Dreamweaver CS4, on the other hand, uses a
Webkit build that will need to be regularly updated, while other editors
embed the actual browsers you have installed on your computer.

Score: I consider this a well-intentioned feature that could have been a
whole lot more powerful - and useful.

*New User Interface
----------------------
Score: I guess if you really like it you'll consider it a feature.

*HTML data sets
------------------------
The new HTML datasets could be, in my opinion, more efficient. The content
has to be downloaded anyway. Why not structure a page *exactly* as you want
it to appear to search engines and script-disabled user agents and then use
the DOM to "remix" that content if script is enabled?

Score: Too complex for the end result.

We use neither Photoshop, Air, or Subversion so I have no comments on those
features.

That said, I believe the features in this release are, in large part, more
like add-ons. If the market balks a little and the number of upgrades is
stagnant, this could be motivation for a truly revolutionary, ground-up new
Dreamweaver within 2 or 2.5 years.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators

"we've had to pay through the nose for. "

you did? who forced you?



[q]Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
the last "significant release" was from version 4 to MX. The rest have been
maintenance releases that we've had to pay through the nose for.


[/q]