Re: OK, I give up, you win!

It's not stupid to design for one browser -- Internet Explorer, which
90% of surfers use.

With design work fading fast and prices plunging, it's not worth all
the extra time it takes to make pages work for the other 10%.
Perfectionists, hard coders and other geeks can waste their time and
see where it gets them bank account wise. My time is worth money and
I'll be damned if I'll waste it.


On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:26:03 GMT, Jane Withnolastname
<JaneWithnolastnameNOSPAM (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

*Everybody* wins, if what you say is true.

Anyway, I give up.
I'm wrong.

I *want* to design my site for *all* browsers.
I get it now. That's the way to go.

I have taken the first step - or, at least, one of the first steps -
which is to download the latest versions of Netscape, Opera and
Mozilla. (Um, do I actually *need* Netscape with all its bloat?
Mozilla looks exactly the same. Do they render anything differently so
that I would actually need both?)

I only have Windows, so can only design for that and hope that folks
with other OSes and systems will be polite when they tell me how
crappy it looks.

But here's the thing: You all were so kind enough to give me a bunch
of links to sites and articles telling me how completely stupid I was
for focussing on one browser, but you all neglected to send me any
link to a site or article telling me how to code for all browsers.

Someone said it was actually easier to code for all browsers rather
than just IE. I don't see how that's possible, but I sit here with an
open mind, waiting for you to fill it with helpful, useful
information. I don't expect you to convince me that it is so - that's
done already. I am converted (or, at least, ready and willing to be).

I'm not asking for step-by-step instructions on absolutely everything,
but I also don't want to try and wade through the W3C specs on 4.01.
What I would like to ask is this:
1. Where is there a really good, well-written (i.e. "For Dummies"),
comprehensive tutorial on writing for all browsers?
2. Should I embrace XHTML now or stick with HTML 4.01 until I get that
mastered? (I have never tried XML - would it be such a huge leap to
XHTML, or fairly intuitive considering my experience with HTML?)

Seriously, I *do* have 7 years experience writing HTML. CSS is
confusing but manageable to me and pretty much all of my JavaScript
comes from other sources because I'm too dense to even follow a
Dummies book on that. (Yes, I properly credit the creators of the
scripts I steal, er, I mean, use.)

Thanks in advance, and I hope this actually reaches someone and that
I'm not in *everyone's* killfile

On Thu, Aug 21, William Starr Moake inscribed on the eternal scroll:

It's not stupid to design for one browser

Top-posting brings its own rewards.


[ massive TOFU deposit excavated away ]

I'd love to have someone like you working for my customer's
competitors.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:57:19 -1000,
William Starr Moake <wsmoake (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

..[snipped]..

I didn't read your message (a lie), because it wasn't designed to work
in my news client. It didn't follow the proper way to post, and I don't
use the top-posting-oriented news client that you designed it for.

If Jane can finally recognise the truth (gold stars for her), you should
too, if you only put some thought into it (the prime requisite).

The simplistic approach:

Write the page to include the necessary content, and ensure its correct
(in all aspects of the term "correct").

Add extra stuff to make it look nicer in the browsers you're familiar
with, while making sure that you don't use dumb tricks (i.e. don't use
bad advice, and research what you're about to attempt) that stuff things
up for browsers that you're not familiar with. Those other browsers
should still be able to use the content, even if it doesn't look as
good.

Abandon any dumb ideas about completely blocking browsers that you don't
know about, because they might be able to display a page in manner that
you don't want them to. It's as dumb as refusing to give a
book/pamphlet/photo/portrait/whatever to someone with thick glasses,
because they won't see it as you want them to.

--
My "from" address is totally fake. (Hint: If I wanted e-mails from
complete strangers, I'd have put a real one, there.) Reply to usenet
postings in the same place as you read the message you're replying to.

Greg Schmidt wrote:

There used to be two groups: one said "do whatever the customer asks"
and the other said "explain to the customer why what they're asking is
wrong". Both were highly paid and had lots of work. I see the current
market as a time when the first group will drop their prices, and the
second group will accept that they may get less contracts. Both will
have revenues reduced by a similar amount, but I believe the second
group will be better positioned when things pick up again. The first
group will have a hard time justifying an increase in rates, but they
don't have time for more work since their strategy was to keep busy.
The second group will keep charging the same rate they always have, but
they have the time to double their workload. Comments?

precisely the theory I'm operating on...helped by the
fact that I've been somewhat ill for much of the year and
unable to work anyway until very recently

I see more and more queries about search engine
optimisation and usability on newsgroups, bulletin boards
and mailing lists...the dot com bubble has burst...you
can't make money by relying on rising share prices...now
web sites have to actually do business to justify their
existence...brochureware still has a place...but it's
going to have to be search engine friendly
brochureware...and the big payers are going to be
demanding good accessibility practise once the
prosecutions start in earnest

there are a few more years of shaking up to go in this
business before we find out how it will be in the long
term

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"

In article <dbjakv8ohff7c8l4jt9dj4o5d7r4qjtf5q (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
William Starr Moake <wsmoake (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

My time is worth money and
I'll be damned if I'll waste it.

Then practice speeding up. Not many will wait for you to catch up.

--
Kris
kristiaan (AT) xs4all (DOT) netherlands (nl)
"We called him Tortoise because he taught us" said the Mock Turtle.