Does anyone pay attention to standards?

Mark Tranchant mark (AT) tranchant (DOT) plus.com wrote:

Brian wrote:

Adrienne wrote:

In my experience, clean markup, clean CSS and clean code
leads to better results in search engines.

That has certainly not been my experience. I did a new site for a
restaurant, using valid html 4.01 strict. It shows up 4th in Google for
"TS McHugh's" at the moment (it's been bouncing around a lot lately).
The old site is # 1 at the moment. It has dreadful markup like the
following for its header:

snip

...as a counter-example, my relatively new page:

http://tranchant.plus.com/notes/multiviews

comes up second behind apache.org in a global Google search for
"multiviews", top for "php multiviews" and top on a UK search for
"multiviews". The page is only 9 days old.

So there's certainly no *disadvantage* to using decent markup, and there
seems to be no substitute for text content.

I get the weirdest search terms finding my personal site...having had a
look around to see why, it seems to be that a fairly pared down css layout
site will do pretty well for anything that's in the content...basically, I
assume, because it has a better signal to noise ratio

in my last long term job we went from the fourth page of Google for a
single word 3 million results search term to eleventh (and briefly tenth)
in the space of a couple of months when I shifted the entire site to a css
layout

however, other factors are even more important, such as having a keyword
in the domain name, good page titles, good link structure, and plenty of
inbound links with keywords in the link text...you need them all to rank
well and the last of them takes time

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

Mark Tranchant mark (AT) tranchant (DOT) plus.com wrote:

I also get top slot for the highly competitive "chord tutorial" search.
Again, I'm not sure why. Maybe that $10,000 gift to Google helped...?

on that one it's probably good content doing the trick

which reminded me to shift it from my bookmarks on to my music page

thanks

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

I code for standards in general because it is easy to do so and
reliable.

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her
permission.

Eric Jarvis wrote:

Mark Tranchant mark (AT) tranchant (DOT) plus.com wrote:

I also get top slot for the highly competitive "chord tutorial" search.
Again, I'm not sure why. Maybe that $10,000 gift to Google helped...?

on that one it's probably good content doing the trick

which reminded me to shift it from my bookmarks on to my music page

Eric,

As your email isn't working (full mailbox), and this is nearly topical,
please update the link on http://www.ericjarvis.co.uk/web.html to my
"exceedingly fine tutorials" (one of which I *must* get around to
finishing) to:

http://tranchant.plus.com/web/html-start

Thanks!

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

In article <4088bfd0.4821783 (AT) news (DOT) centennialpr.net>, ephesys (AT) myexcel (DOT) com
says...

Doesn't anyone care anymore, or are the standards more-or-less looked at as
guidlines for web design?

The problem with standards on something as diverse as the web is I might
not like your choice of standards, and you might not like mine.
--
Whitecrest Entertainment
www.whitecrestent.com

In article <Xns94D42C1DAB22arbpenyahoocom (AT) 207 (DOT) 115.63.158>, arbpen2003
@sbcglobal.net says...

In my experience, clean markup, clean CSS and clean code leads to better
results in search engines. Why? Because search engines are machines, have
no eyes, no ears, hands, etc., so they have to look for logical, valid
markup.

But keep in mind MANY sites are more concerned with appearance and
presentation, because THAT is what drives people to their site, not
search results. A simple search for "sparkling cola beverage" in google
does not have a link to any of the leading brands of cola beverages in
the first 7 pages. Why? Because they don't care about search engine
results. People go to the Coke site because they already know the url,
they don't have to search for it.


--
Whitecrest Entertainment
www.whitecrestent.com

Whitecrest wrote:

In article <4088bfd0.4821783 (AT) news (DOT) centennialpr.net>, ephesys (AT) myexcel (DOT) com
says...

Doesn't anyone care anymore, or are the standards more-or-less looked at as
guidlines for web design?

The problem with standards on something as diverse as the web is I might
not like your choice of standards, and you might not like mine.

You and I don't set the standards. We should agree on a set used all
over; there is *one* BTW. Ever hear of W3C?

--
Stan McCann
Tularosa Basin chapter ABATE of NM Cooordinator, Alamogordo, NM
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked)
http://surecann.com/Dcp_2068c.jpg

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Whitecrest wrote:

But keep in mind MANY sites are more concerned with appearance and
presentation,

Good presentation doesn't necessarily exclude good content

because THAT is what drives people to their site,

WHAT???

Perhaps you'd like to share with us how that's done. Don't be afraid
to spell it out, step by step: I won't feel patronised.

not search results.

Have you actually looked at the proportion of page accesses which
result from a search? Across a wide range of types of web site, I
mean?

People go to the Coke site because they already know the url,

Well spotted. Now tell us again how that "drives people to their
site"?

they don't have to search for it.

You said:

But keep in mind MANY sites are more concerned with appearance and
^^^^
presentation,

So: how many thousands, out of the total number of web sites, have the
luxury of having their URL known already by the web audience, would
you estimate? What proportion is that of the whole?

Hence or otherwise deduce how realistic it is for the majority of web
sites to design web pages which emulate them, and take no account of
indexing robots.

If I was in business (the regular readers have seen this before...),
you're the kind of competition I'd just love to have.

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:42:05 -0600, Stan McCann wrote:

You and I don't set the standards.

I do. This page:

http://www.goddamn.co.uk/help/textsize/

uses my very own HTML standard (based on HTML 4.01 Strict).

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132

In article <Pine.LNX.4.53.0404231852150.8984 (AT) ppepc56 (DOT) ph.gla.ac.uk>,
flavell (AT) ph (DOT) gla.ac.uk says...

But keep in mind MANY sites are more concerned with appearance and
presentation,
Good presentation doesn't necessarily exclude good content

Never said it did

because THAT is what drives people to their site,
WHAT???

What drives people to "The Punisher" web site? It's position in the
search engines? Nope, the radio, tv, and print ads send them to the
site. What keeps people there? The presentation of the information
about the movie.

Perhaps you'd like to share with us how that's done. Don't be afraid
to spell it out, step by step: I won't feel patronised.

See above.

People go to the Coke site because they already know the url,
Well spotted. Now tell us again how that "drives people to their
site"?

TV, Radio and print ads.

But keep in mind MANY sites are more concerned with appearance and
presentation,

So: how many thousands, out of the total number of web sites, have the
luxury of having their URL known already by the web audience, would
you estimate? What proportion is that of the whole?

Well pretty much any fortune 500 or better company in the world, and
virtually all web sites made for movies or tv.

Hence or otherwise deduce how realistic it is for the majority of web
sites to design web pages which emulate them, and take no account of
indexing robots.

I have always said if you site is there to directly make money, then by
all means your site should be accessible to as many as possible (which
includes search engines) ALL other web site must be dealt with in a
case by case manner to decide what is best for them. One size does not
fit all.

If I was in business (the regular readers have seen this before...),
you're the kind of competition I'd just love to have.

If you make entertainment web sites, then you already have me as your
competition. And your right, I love it.

--
Whitecrest Entertainment
www.whitecrestent.com