Template or model for menuing

rf wrote:

"Ed Mullen" <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:5_KdnebQ8-6gkxDanZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com...
rf wrote:
"Ed Mullen" <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:hM6dnYFHftqx8hfanZ2dnUVZ_vmlnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com...
rf wrote:

http://barefile.com.au/cssmenu/

Thanks again for this, Richard.

Ok, I've been spending some time on it and I have a couple of questions.

1. Why use a table for the menu items? As opposed to list items, for
example?

Hmmm. Been a while.

1) IE6 will only play nicely with this for a few elements within the <a>.
table> is one of these. The more semantcally correct <ul> is not, so even
when using a <ul> for the sub menu it needs to be enclosed in a single
celled table.

2) A <ul> worked for me with some of the simpler layouts (top flat seperate
IIRC) (in a single celled table for IE6) but with the more complex ones I
had one hell of a time with selecting the appropriate <li> cross browser. It
became so annoying that I reverted to using a table (which nees to be there
for IE6 anyway). May not be "correct" but it works and is a case IMHO of
simply reaching for the hammer when every screwdriver to hand will not drive
the screw in. With some perserverance it could probably be done with list
items but I really could not justify spending any more time on it. If you
only want something simple (and not multi-design as mine is) then go for a
list (inside a table for IE6).

2. Do you have an example of this scheme which implements additional
sub-levels?

It could probably be extended to multi level but I did not for several
reasons.

Even one level of drop down is getting to be a bit of an accessibility
problem. The dropdown is only usable with visual browsers and then only with
a pointing device. (note, my top level menu items are *always* links
themselves, pointing to an intermediate page containing all the "dropdown"
links in a secondary menu bar. This makes the system usable from the
keyboard). A second level of dropdowns would be IMO overkill. I dislike them
myself when I find them on web sites in the wild.

Positioning possible second level dropdowns is a big problem. The menus size
themselves to their content so we don't know where the right hand side of
the dropdowns is, so we don't know where to position the second level
dropdown. This could be fixed by fixing the size of the dropdowns but that
is not part of my design.

Thanks for the detailed reply, Richard. Much appreciated.

I understand your reasoning. In my case, my site is a non-commercial
one and is just a hobby. Hence, while mindful of the usability issues,
I'm not overly concerned with the rare visitor who might be using a
visual browser. I personally like multi-level menus since that's what
virtually all the programs on my Windows computer use, and I'm extremely
familiar with them. But, to each his own. I guess I'll take another
look at Stu Nicholls' menu system. But thanks again for your time and help!

Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?

Same reason we initiate a Windows shutdown by clicking the start button?

<G> Nice!

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
If a book about failures does not sell, is it a success?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:45:51 -0800 (PST) from AGw. (Usenet)
<frederick (AT) southernskies (DOT) co.uk>:

On Jan 10, 1:46 am, "rf" <r... (AT) invalid (DOT) com> wrote:

"Gregor Kofler" <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) at> wrote in message
news:7a3ee$4785667d$557fb479$17585 (AT) news (DOT) inode.at...

Anyway, "dropdown menus for ie without javascript" gives me 106.000 hits.
Still, I don't think there is a pure-css-and-ie6-too version among them.

Here's one:
http://barefile.com.au/cssmenu/

Even supports IE5.5.

nitpick
11 validation errors
/nitpick

I beg to differ. That's not nitpicking, IMHO. I just assumed that
Gregor was offering valid HTML and CSS. If it's not, I don't want to
use it.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you

"AGw. (Usenet)" <frederick (AT) southernskies (DOT) co.uk> wrote

On Jan 18, 1:13 am, Stan Brown <the_stan_br... (AT) fastmail (DOT) fm> wrote:

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:45:51 -0800 (PST) from AGw. (Usenet)
freder... (AT) southernskies (DOT) co.uk>:

On Jan 10, 1:46 am, "rf" <r... (AT) invalid (DOT) com> wrote:

"Gregor Kofler" <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) at> wrote in message
news:7a3ee$4785667d$557fb479$17585 (AT) news (DOT) inode.at...

Anyway, "dropdown menus for ie without javascript" gives me 106.000
hits.
Still, I don't think there is a pure-css-and-ie6-too version among
them.

Here's one:
http://barefile.com.au/cssmenu/

Even supports IE5.5.

nitpick
11 validation errors
/nitpick

I beg to differ. That's not nitpicking, IMHO. I just assumed that
Gregor was offering valid HTML and CSS. If it's not, I don't want to
use it.

At quick glance the validation errors are quickly fixable, and neither
their existence nor their correction would interfere with the
operation of the code. Granted, I may have missed something obvious!

Incidentally, you've confused Gregor with Richard.

<grin> I've been confused with a lot of people before but never with a
Gregor. Sounds sinister :-) </grin>

This code now validates but it was never meant to be production code anyway.
Merely a proof of concept. Experimental stuff. It is up to the reader to use
and/or modify it as she sees fit.

BTW Ed, I remember why I did not use a <ul> as the dropdown menu. IE7 (yes,
7, not <=6) simply will not play with it.

http://barefile.com.au/cssmenu/menu7.html

The dropdown works fine with Firefox and other modern browsers but *not*
with IE7. The dropdown *only* remains down then the mouse is over the text
of a sub item.

After dropdown you can mouse down to the sub 1 item *as long as the mouse is
over the text*. Move it to the right of the the 1 and the dropdown
disappears.

You cannot move down to the lower items unless you are bloody quick with the
mouse. As soon as IE7 sees the mouse over one of the <li>'s borders the
dropdown disappears.

Simply not viable. However, if somebody manages to come up with a dropdown
using <ul> that is CSS only that works in IE7 I would like to know. Or maybe
I'm simply missing something obvious :-)

--
Richard.