Setting textbox width for Netscape 4.7

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:05:45 -0700, Jeff Nibler wrote:

That is exactly what I am trying to do. I have a js include (on each page)
that detects the browser version,

This is a bad way to go. JS gurus generally advocate
'object/feature detection' to ascertain what can and
cannot be done in a particular browser, but..

..then uses document.write to write the link
to the appropriate style sheet.

This is better handled using pure CSS/HTML..

<link rel="...." type='text/css'>

...can be read by old IE and NN, whereas..

<style type='text/css'>
@import ...
</style>

...will be completely ignored ny the old browsers.

HTH

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:17:48 -0700, Jeff Nibler wrote:

If I had said, "it doesn't work"
without first giving a detailed explanation (in my original post),

Which readers of later posts may not have access to..

Whereas if you'd said "it doesn't resize",
everybody has a chance of being on the same
page.

..then I
would understand your flame.

(chuckles) You'll know a flame when
your ass is smoldering..

..But thanks anyway.

But feel free to give a back-hand response that
indicates you are 'so much better' than the
person who'm you perceive to have slighted you.

<dripping with..>
I'm sure everybody will be convinced..
</dripping with..> ;-)

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:05:45 -0700, "Jeff Nibler"
<djnibler (AT) spam-me-not-hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

"Neal" <neal413 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
newspschh9ic26v6656 (AT) news (DOT) individual.net...
Tell them that the only way to support modern browsers AND
NN4 is to set up separate stylesheets and that's going to
double the cost. Because that's exactly what you'll have to do here.

That is exactly what I am trying to do. I have a js include...
that detects the browser version...

Bad move; stay on CSS only and read up on the @import directive.
(see Andrews post below for details)

You may also want to read the following article...

<http://www.css.nu/articles/About-JSSS.html>

....and make sure to follow the link to 'JSSS'.

A full understanding of what 'JSSS' has to "offer" as specified, will
also tell you what level of CSS that NS4x browsers can handle so don't
expect much luck with styling for form elements as it is.

Anyway; and this is just a silly idea, if you can find a way to have all
other browsers but NS4x to ignore a 'JSSS' style sheet, you could write
one to be served specifically for NS4x, it would work as a fact :-)

--
Rex

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:58:01 GMT, Andrew Thompson
<SeeMySites (AT) www (DOT) invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:05:45 -0700, Jeff Nibler wrote:
[...]
..then uses document.write to write the link
to the appropriate style sheet.

This is better handled using pure CSS/HTML..

link rel="...." type='text/css'

..can be read by old IE and NN, whereas..

style type='text/css'
@import ...
/style

..will be completely ignored ny the old browsers.

While what you say is completely true of course, I would still recommend
that the @import directive should be a part of the linked external style
sheet.

The STYLE element is in reality not a good design, after all we are
supposed to keep markup and presentational suggestions as separate
resources.

--
Rex

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:05:45 -0700, Jeff Nibler
<djnibler (AT) spam-me-not-hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

"Neal" <neal413 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
newspschh9ic26v6656 (AT) news (DOT) individual.net...
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:22:44 -0700, Jeff Nibler
Tell them that the only way to support modern browsers AND NN4 is to set
up separate stylesheets and that's going to double the cost. Because
that's exactly what you'll have to do here.


That is exactly what I am trying to do. I have a js include (on each
page)
that detects the browser version, then uses document.write to write the
link
to the appropriate style sheet.

Eww. Javascript cannot be relied upon for this.

Simplest way I can think of is to link to a screen CSS which is set up so
NN4 renders properly, then import a stylesheet which cancels everything
out explicitly which needs to be and sets the proper values. Not exactly
simple though.

I hear a lot of people saying how obsolete Netscape 4.7 is, but you would
not believe how many large corporations still use it (especially for
intranets) and refuse to upgrade to a newer browser. The issue for many
of
them is that their IS department would need to handle the roll-out which
can
cost a lot of money depending on the size of the organization.

Still, it's not smart for businesses to avoid new technology. That's the
surest path to Chapter 11 in this economy. Especially when it can be done
as cheaply as it can, I can't really excuse sticking to NN4 - not that you
have much choice in the matter.

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Jeff Nibler wrote:

When I said "it doesn't matter" and "doesn't work," I was referring to the
specific behavior I am experiencing with Netscape 4.7.

When you code:

.t1 {
width: 15;
}

and a browser does nothing in response, then the browser *is* working
as designed. CSS is *supposed* to be ignored when incorrectly
specified.

Any browser which behaves differently with and without the above
(incorrect) CSS is broken. It's not working, it's a dead parrot,
it's expired... well, you get the idea.

That only reinforces the advice that every problem description needs:

1. a clear statement of what you did (we got that OK here, although in
many cases around here we would need an online sample in order to get
the complete picture),

2. What you *expected* to happen

3. What you *observed* to happen

Then you stand a good chance of getting properly advised (i.e that
maybe it was your expectation which was at fault).

If you read my original question,

Whaddyer mean, "if"?

you would understand that in my reply, "doesn't work" means
"Netscape doesn't change the width of a text box when I use
width: 15

But that *is* working. OK, OK, I concede that it's working for the
wrong reason (because NN4 doesn't implement it at all, rather than
because it's deliberately ignoring the improper specification), but
that doesn't change the fact that *in this particular instance*, NN4's
behaviour is just what CSS wants. (It doesn't happen to be what you
wanted, but now you know better, right?)

would understand your flame. But thanks anyway.

You haven't seen a Usenet flame yet, it seems.

good luck

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:16:30 -0400, Neal <neal413 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Still, it's not smart for businesses to avoid new technology. That's the
surest path to Chapter 11 in this economy.

As a general statement, I'd have to disagree with you. There's a good
deal of "new technology" floating around which companies can avoid with
little harm, and in some cases with considerable benefit.

Especially when it can be done
as cheaply as it can, I can't really excuse sticking to NN4 - not that you
have much choice in the matter.

OTOH in the specific case of NN4 I can agree with you.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/