Revised newsgroup meta FAQ, posted for peer review, not archived

I'm posting a revised version of the meta FAQ for this NG.
Beware that there are a few links in there that does not have a resource
available for them yet but, over and all, this following document should
be usable as presented.

Rip it apart at your own discretion...

=====

Archive-name: www/stylesheets/newsgroup-faq
Posting-Frequency: twice a week (mondays and thursdays)
Last-modified: July 20, 2004
Version: 2.00
URL: <http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html>
Maintainer: Jan Roland Eriksson <rex (AT) css (DOT) nu>

comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets meta-FAQ v2.00
__________________________________________________ ____________________

00: ===== T O C =====

01: What is comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets ?
02: What kinds of posts are acceptable in this news group ?
03: What kinds of posts may be acceptable in this news group ?
04: What kinds of posts are not acceptable in this news group ?
05: Where are the technical resources for this news group ?
06: How do I get best possible answers to my questions ?
07: What is the 'atmosphere' of ciwas ?
08: Where can I find the latest version of this FAQ ?

09: ==== End ====
__________________________________________________ ____________________

01: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What is comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets

A: This is an unmoderated news group which passed for creation by
votes of 166:19 as reported in <news.announce.newgroups> on
20 Mars 1997.

The charter of this news group, as culled from the vote result
announcement, states the following:

"This unmoderated news group is intended for the discussion of Web
style sheets. Style sheets can make an author's life much easier.
With style sheets, one only needs to specify presentational pre-
ferences once, and the style can be applied to an entire site.
Not only that, but style sheets also reduce download time when one
file contains all the style information."


02: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What kinds of posts are acceptable in this news group ?

A: This news group is defined to be a forum for discussion of style
sheet technology and usage that is applicable to the WWW.

Examples of valid topics for this news group includes:

* How to achieve a particular effect with style sheets.
* The relative advantages of different style sheet languages.
* Specifications versus implementations.
* Bugs and limitations in implementations.


03: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What kinds of posts may be acceptable in this news group ?

A: Articles on related WWW subjects (e.g. (X)HTML mark-up, client or
server side scripting languages, etc) that may be required for a
full discussion of a specific style sheet problem.

On general terms:

* articles on (X)HTML mark-up should be posted to
<comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html>

* articles on XML mark-up should be posted to <comp.text.xml>

* articles on DSSSL may be posted to <comp.text.sgml> but the most
correct forum might be the DSSSL mailing list at
<DSSSList (AT) lists (DOT) mulberrytech.com> which has a main WWW entry at
<http://www.mulberrytech.com/dsssl/dssslist/>

* articles on client side scripting languages (e.g. Javascript,
Jscript etc) should be posted to <comp.lang.javascript>

* articles on server side scripting and/or programming languages
should be posted to the news group or mailing list most approp-
riate to the particular language in use. A search at
<http://www.google.com> may be of help to find the correct forum
for articles that are directly off-topic for
<comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets>


04: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What kind of posts are not acceptable in this news group ?

A: Some examples of inappropriate posts include:

* Chain letters, including "Make Money Fast" articles.
* Known hoaxes (like the "Good Times Virus").
* Announcements of non-relevant Web pages and services.
* Personal introductions or requests for e-mail.
* Off topic articles, questions or responses.
* Test articles.
* Articles cross-posted to several news groups where the article
is off-topic for one or more of the news groups in the cross-
post list.
* Articles posted as separate copies to many groups ("spam").
* Articles with significantly more quoted than new content.
* Articles offering items for sale and commercial advertisements.
* Articles which aren't primarily text in a standard alphabet
(e.g. binaries, pictures, Rot13, etc).


05: ===== Q & A =====

Q: Where are the technical resources for this news group ?

A: Available information on the subject of style sheets is too exten-
sive to be directly written into a posted document like this meta-
FAQ. It is suggested that you research your technical questions on
the use of style sheets in one or more of the following places on
the WWW.

* Style sheet information from the World Wide Web Consortium
(also known as the W3C) starts at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/>
and continues at <http://www.w3.org/Style/XSL/>

- The official recommendation for Cascading Style Sheets level 1
(aka CSS1) <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1>

- The official recommendation for Cascading Style Sheets level 2
(aka CSS2) <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/>

- The official errata document for Cascading Style Sheets level 2
(which is no longer maintained, in favor of the current ongoing
work on the CSS2.1 specification)

<http://www.w3.org/Style/css2-updates/REC-CSS2-19980512-errata.html>

- The official Candidate recommendation for Cascading Style
Sheets level 2.1 (which is currently a "work in progress"
document) <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/>

- The official recommendation for XSL Transformations (XSLT)
Version 1.0 <http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt>

- The official recommendation for XML Path Language (XPath)
Version 1.0 <http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath>

- The official recommendation for Extensible Stylesheet Language
(XSL/XSL-FO) Version 1.0 <http://www.w3.org/TR/xsl/>

* Information on other style sheet capable languages, document
transformation methods and specifications.

- Document Style Semantics and Specification Language (DSSSL)
<http://www.mulberrytech.com/dsssl/dssslist/>

- Formatting Output Specification Instance (FOSI)
<http://xml.coverpages.org/gov-apps.html#mil2167a>

- Interactive Electronic Technical Manuals (IETM)
<http://www.ietm.net/>
<http://navycals.dt.navy.mil/cals/documents/sp87269A.pdf>

- International Committee for Accessible Document Design (ICADD)
<http://xml.coverpages.org/ICADDiso.html>
<http://xml.coverpages.org/ICADDpur.html>
It should be noted that the HTML2 DTD was designed to be ICADD
compatible <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1866.txt>

* Syntax checkers for CSS are available online from here
<http://www.htmlhelp.org/tools/csscheck/> (CSS1 primarily)
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/>

* True HTML syntax validators are available online from here
<http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/>
<http://valet.webthing.com/page/>
<http://validator.w3.org/>

* A commercial Windows front for James Clark's 'nsgmls' SGML
parser/validator is available from here
<http://arealvalidator.com/>

* In need of a good, all purpose (X)HTML-CSS, editor for the WIN
environment? <http://www.notetab.com/> It's available on a
commercial basis but its real value lies in the vast amount of
free add-in "clips" available for it. True DTD based validation
of your markup is just one of the modules that you do not have
to pay extra to have at your fingertips.

* W3C has a CSS test suite available, the work to design that test
suite was originally done by Eric A. Meyer but today it's main-
tained by Bert Bos.
<http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/>

* Eric Meyer's "Complex Spiral Demo" became a "classic example" at
the same time it was published. Eric shows the full capacity of
CSS1 (combined with a few, very basic, pick up's from CSS2)
<http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/demo.html>

* Todd Fahrner once designed a set of core stylesheets that was
placed on the W3C server system. Todd has found other (maybe
more valuable) interests in life as compared to participating
in discussions in ciwas, but his original excellent work is
still available, now maintained by Bert Bos.
<http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/Core/>

* The Web Design Group has a CSS reference here
<http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/>

* The authoring FAQ for this news group is at
<http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-aFAQ.html>

* The HTML Writers Guild CSS FAQ, originally produced by Eva von
Pepel, a few years back. Still claimed to be maintained by Eva
but has not been updated for quite some time
<http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/cssFAQ.html>

* To save some time on Google evaluations we have here a list of
CSS educational sites as culled from the two first result pages
from Google on the simple search key 'CSS'. Most of these sites
gets recommended every now and then by regulars in ciwas.

<http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp>
<http://www.csszengarden.com/>
<http://glish.com/css/>
<http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/>
<http://css.nu/>
<http://css.maxdesign.com.au/>
<http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/>
<http://www.westciv.com/style_master/house/index.html>
<http://www.alistapart.com/topics/css/>


06: ===== Q & A =====

Q: How do I get best possible answers to my questions ?

A: In the list of resources (Q&A #5 above) you can find URL's
pointing to "syntax validators" for both HTML and CSS.
These on-line resources can be among your best friends when you
are having problems with your web page designs.
Regular posters in "ciwas" like to validate their css snippets,
and/or external CSS files along with their (X)HTML, before posting
a question to the NG.
If you still have problems, after having followed advice given
by the validators, chances are that you having an encounter with
a browser bug and/or a bad CSS implementation in a particular
browser. Regulars in ciwas know about most of them and, if your
question warrants a continued discussion, you may find that a
suggestion for a suitable "work around" for your problem will pop
up in the thead you started.


07: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What is the 'atmosphere' of ciwas ?

A: Well, "strict" maybe a short definition, and naturally you will
find 'OT' discussions here just as well as you can find them in
other NG's. Still, over the years since the creation of ciwas,
basically two items has come to be essential for any one who wants
to place a comment in ciwas.

a) Do Not top post.
b) Trim your quoted material down to bare essentials.

One ciwas usenaut has agreed to let his views of the NG be
referenced from this mFAQ at <http://www.css.nu/faq/ciwas-NG.html>


08: ===== Q & A =====

Q: Where can I find the latest version of this FAQ ?

A: This FAQ was last updated 2004/07/20 copyright 1998 ... 2004
-- Jan Roland Eriksson --

Permission to freely reproduce this document electronically is
given as long as the document remains uncut and unedited.

This FAQ is posted periodically to the NG every monday and thurs-
day and I'll endeavor to use the same subject line at all times
so that those of you who have seen it can kill-file the subject.

FAQ version number in subject line will be changed whenever the
document has been revised. You should be able to use that fact
when setting your kill filter to make sure that you have the
latest version available at all times.

This meta-FAQ is also available in HTML on the World Wide Web at
<http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html> and as a text document at
<http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.txt> with the revision history of
this meta-FAQ at <http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ-rev.html>


09: ===== E N D =====
__________________________________________________ ____________________

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:09:29 +0200, Jan Roland Eriksson <rex (AT) css (DOT) nu> wrote:

I'm posting a revised version of the meta FAQ for this NG.
Beware that there are a few links in there that does not have a resource
available for them yet but, over and all, this following document should
be usable as presented.

06: ===== Q & A =====

Q: How do I get best possible answers to my questions ?

A: In the list of resources (Q&A #5 above) you can find URL's
pointing to "syntax validators" for both HTML and CSS.
These on-line resources can be among your best friends when you
are having problems with your web page designs.
Regular posters in "ciwas" like to validate their css snippets,
and/or external CSS files along with their (X)HTML, before posting
a question to the NG.
If you still have problems, after having followed advice given
by the validators, chances are that you having an encounter with
a browser bug and/or a bad CSS implementation in a particular
browser. Regulars in ciwas know about most of them and, if your
question warrants a continued discussion, you may find that a
suggestion for a suitable "work around" for your problem will pop
up in the thead you started.

This might be the most important FAQ here, it reads a little dense.
Perhaps...

A: First, please search this newsgroup
(http://groups.google.com/groups?grou....styles heets
is an effective tool) for recent dicussion of your issue. Next, be sure
your (X)HTML and CSS are valid; see Q&A #5 for links to validators. If the
problem remains, get your code pared down to the bare minimum which still
shows the problem and upload it to a website.

When posting, indicate what you feel is wrong, what you'd like to have
happen instead, and include the URL to the test case you've prepared. This
process often reveals the problem before you even have to ask, and it
saves time and effort for the helpful regulars who really do want to
assist you.

07: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What is the 'atmosphere' of ciwas ?

A: Well, "strict" maybe a short definition, and naturally you will
find 'OT' discussions here just as well as you can find them in
other NG's. Still, over the years since the creation of ciwas,
basically two items has come to be essential for any one who wants
to place a comment in ciwas.

a) Do Not top post.
b) Trim your quoted material down to bare essentials.

One ciwas usenaut has agreed to let his views of the NG be
referenced from this mFAQ at <http://www.css.nu/faq/ciwas-NG.html

I'd change:

a) Post in natural conversation order, either below the quoted material or
in-line with it; do not "top-post".

b) Include quoted material (with attribution) but trim it down to the
essentials.

And add:

c) If your question is also on topic for other newsgroups, and you want
feedback from multiple newsgroups on the same question, crosspost the
question, do not multipost separate posts.


In general - beautiful, great work.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:53:00 -0400, Neal <neal413 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:09:29 +0200, Jan Roland Eriksson <rex (AT) css (DOT) nu> wrote:
I'm posting a revised version of the meta FAQ for this NG.

This might be the most important FAQ here, it reads a little dense.
Perhaps...

a) Do Not top post.
b) Trim your quoted material down to bare essentials.

I'd change:

a) Post in natural conversation order...
b) Include quoted material...
c) If your question is also on topic for other newsgroups...

In general - beautiful, great work.

Thanks Neal; and yes, your suggested wording sounds better. I will
consider it for a new revision of the mFAQ list.

All the best...

--
Rex

....

01: ===== Q & A =====

A: This is an unmoderated news group which passed for creation by
votes of 166:19 as reported in <news.announce.newgroups> on
20 Mars 1997.

This FAQ appears to be in English, so I wonder about the use of "Mars" in
the date. Surely, it should be "March", or its abbreviated form "Mar".

02: ===== Q & A =====
....
Examples of valid topics for this news group includes:

Gramatically speaking, this should read:

Examples of valid topics for this news group include:

03: ===== Q & A =====
....
On general terms:

"In general terms" would be preferable.

Sue

JRS: In article <noppf0p85mnrc8cj0nd92ovua1lval0p13 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, dated
Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:09:29, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.s
tylesheets, Jan Roland Eriksson <rex (AT) css (DOT) nu> posted :

Lines: 308
Expires: 7/25/2004

It would be nicer to have that in a form which is unambiguous for all
dates.

Rip it apart at your own discretion...

Posting-Frequency: twice a week (mondays and thursdays)

For 300 lines, once a week should do; alternatively, there are tricks
that enable one to collect only changed versions.

Q: What is comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets

A: This is an unmoderated news group which passed for creation by
votes of 166:19 as reported in <news.announce.newgroups> on
20 Mars 1997.

March

The charter of this news group, as culled from the vote result
-------------- "taken" reads

better.

announcement, states the following:
-------------------- is

02: ===== Q & A =====

A: This news group is defined to be a forum for discussion of style
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

03: ===== Q & A =====

On general terms:
In

* articles on client side scripting languages (e.g. Javascript,
Jscript etc) should be posted to <comp.lang.javascript
etc.)

"Client side scripting languages" includes VBscript, which does *not* go
to c.l.j. It would IMHO be well to direct Java to c.l.java.*, if only
as a kindness to c.l.javascript.


Q: What kind of posts are not acceptable in this news group ?

I suggest adding a small number of high-quality respected netiquette
references, with URLs. Sig line 2 is suitable; Sig line 3 contains
links to others.

07: ===== Q & A =====

a) Do Not top post.
n top-post
b) Trim your quoted material down to bare essentials.
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx ?

HTH

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME ©
Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:29:32 GMT, "Sue Sims" <sue (AT) opera (DOT) com> wrote:

...
20 Mars 1997.

...I wonder about the use of "Mars" in the date...

Corrected.

...
Examples of valid topics for this news group includes:

Gramatically speaking...
Examples of valid topics for this news group include:

Corrected.

...
On general terms:

"In general terms"...

And that one too of course.
Thanks for you input Sue.

--
Rex

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:09:11 +0100, Dr John Stockton
<spam (AT) merlyn (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

JRS: In article <noppf0p85mnrc8cj0nd92ovua1lval0p13 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, dated
Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:09:29, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.s
tylesheets, Jan Roland Eriksson <rex (AT) css (DOT) nu> posted :

Lines: 308
Expires: 7/25/2004

It would be nicer to have that in a form which is unambiguous...

Actually I only put that in for the test posts. Usually I never use the
"Expires:" header since usenet servers around the world are pretty much
unreliable in their response to that header anyway.

Posting-Frequency: twice a week (mondays and thursdays)

For 300 lines, once a week should do;

The "twice a week" posting frequency was recommended from the NG several
years back when I worked on the first version of this mFAQ. I would be
only too happy to get my posting maintenance cut down to half if that's
Ok with the users of this NG.

alternatively, there are tricks that enable one to collect
only changed versions.

Sure, a hint to that effect has been in the mFAQ since day one of its
existence. See Q&A #8.

[...]

20 Mars 1997.
March

Corrected.

...as culled from...
-------------- "taken" reads better.

Corrected.

announcement, states the following:
-------------------- is

Corrected.

A: This news group is defined to be a forum...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Corrected.

On general terms:
In

Corrected.

* articles on client side scripting languages...

"Client side scripting languages" includes VBscript, which does *not* go
to c.l.j. ...

I have changed the text in this area, acceptable?

Q: What kind of posts are not acceptable in this news group ?

I suggest adding a small number of high-quality respected netiquette
references...

I added one as a start, acceptable?

a) Do Not top post.
n top-post
b) Trim your quoted material down to bare essentials.
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx ?

Both corrected.

All the best...

--
Rex

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:09:29 +0200, Jan Roland Eriksson wrote:

URL: <http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html
[...]
02: What kinds of posts are acceptable in this news group ?

Shouldn't "news group" be one word? Merriam-Webster, at least, recogises
it:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...sgroup&x=0&y=0

, as does Cambridge Dictionaries online:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/defi...2672&dict=CALD

Gertjan.

--
Gertjan Klein <gklein (AT) xs4all (DOT) nl>