Re: IE and margins (I suppose) again...

On 2007-11-19, Gregor Kofler wrote:

dorayme meinte:

[the evilness of web design]

Well, I've given in and done something utterly despicable: layout
tables. Well, only one. And only for the vertical shadows.
However, it's pretty consistent on Opera, Safari 3, FF, and IE (I'll
ignore the minuscule issues here and there).

http://web.gregorkofler.com/test4.htm

Anyway, it was just a breeze given compared to the ordeal of adapting
the layout of other websites too horrific to mention here (at least it
was paid pretty well).
The above layout is still simple enough, satisfies the customer,
validates, and keeps its shape nicely when enlarged, hence I can live
with the result and the effort put into it.

But it is not readable when I have a window less than about 1200px.

<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/gregor.jpg>

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

In article <84e2d$4743321e$557f1545$27584 (AT) news (DOT) inode.at>,
Gregor Kofler <usenet (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) at> wrote:

Chris F.A. Johnson meinte:

But it is not readable when I have a window less than about 1200px.
http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/gregor.jpg

Come on - huge font sizes + (actually not that) small screen. You can
still scroll, which means it *is* readable (in this case the left [snip]

One datum:

My personal monitor is set to 1152 x 720, and the font size in FF is
set at 16 units (whatever units FF uses.) That works for my eyesight.

I could probably read the text on the original page with a slightly
smaller font, but not much smaller - the text in the jpg cited above
is close to my preferred size. I could set my monitor to display
1440 x 900, but then I'd have to increase the system and application
font sizes for it to be comfortable reading file names, menu items, etc.

And yes, I DO have my reading glasses on!

On 2007-11-20, Gregor Kofler wrote:

Chris F.A. Johnson meinte:

But it is not readable when I have a window less than about 1200px.
http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/gregor.jpg

Come on - huge font sizes

They are not huge font sizes. They are what I require to be able to
read a web page.

I have a higher-than-usual resolution, I have the monitor further
away from my face than is usual, and my eyesight is not what it
used to be and my glasses need replacing. All of these mean a
larger than normal font size.

By default, a web page will adjust so that it fills the window
without leaving spaces and without requiring scrolling.

+ (actually not that) small screen. You can
still scroll, which means it *is* readable (in this case the left
submenu area would move out of the viewport, but the text fits in
nicely).

I am not going to bother scrolling each and every line to read a
web page (unless it is something I absolutely need to know). The
only reason that scrolling is necessary is because YOU prevented
the page from automatically adjusting to the size of my window.

Leave out the 60em width (that's much wider than the optimum range
for readibility), and everyone will be happy.

In order to read you page, the only practical method is to turn off
your style sheet. All that work you did to make a good looking page
amounts to naught.

Yes, if the width would be in percent you would not need to
scroll. But - depending on the percentage of the left and right
"artwork" strips the text area would become very small, the line lengths
very short (which will inevitable produce problems - at least from the
standpoint of the customer - with other content on the pages and the menus).

Any such problems are far less annoying than having to scroll every
line in order to read it.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Gregor Kofler wrote:

Chris F.A. Johnson meinte:

But it is not readable when I have a window less than about 1200px.
http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/gregor.jpg

You can
still scroll, which means it *is* readable

Um, weren't you the one who mentioned a few posts back about lines of
text too long to read? That last version of your test page is pretty bad
in that respect.

BTW, having to scroll horizontally to read text is a bloody awful thing
to do to your users. :-(

(in this case the left
submenu area would move out of the viewport, but the text fits in
nicely).

Not in my browser window. Not even close. Your refusal to let the
navigation menu wrap to multiple lines is perplexing. It would solve so
many problems.

--
Berg