Re: Footer doesn't foot

In article <crV_l.19701$y61.17643 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au>,
Alex Bell <afjbell (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote:

http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/alt/footerDoesFoot.html

Thanks, I've saved your page and printed the mark-up to study. But as
I've said earlier I want the menu contained in the navigation div to be
visible at all times - ie fixed. I should have mentioned that in the
original post.

I'll modify your suggestion so it has a lot of material in the content
div, and see what happens to the dummy menu.

You will not be disappointed by the footer. It must always go below the
wrapper, *if* the wrapper *is made* to grow height for the float. If the
content, which is not floated, is the greater, the wrapper naturally
grows height, no need to *make* it do it.

This issue is slightly complicated, you might find it helpful to read
some of:

<http://netweaver.com.au/floatHouse/>

and especially around page 6.

You might be disappointed by the background of the body element showing
up underneath the navigation, not nice full-length column-like. If you
knew that your menu was always short, and there is a suggestion that it
probably is (otherwise, had your attempt at fixing it succeeded, it
would disappear off many screens), you could give the wrapper the same
coloured bg as the navigation. For example, at footerDoesFoot.html, put
in lots of content and change

#wrap {overflow: hidden;} /* which is to force the wrap to grow height
for its float if need be) */

to

#wrap {background-color:lime;} /* given the hypothesis under discussion,
no need to provide for wrapper growing, the content ensures it */

Of course, we cannot get deeply into the general subject of how to do
columns well right here.

Now, about your desire for a fixed navigation column, I think this is a
*perfectly sensible desire*. I always admired the strength of frames for
this sort of thing. And so used to navigation scrolling away have I
become, that I have almost begun to believe B on this subject!

But the truth is that it is a ridiculous situation that we have all
gotten used to. It may well be the best thing to do given the
constraints of our tools and cross browser difficulties and other
technical roadblocks. But it is still, in itself, rather absurd for an
important site navigation to simply disappear off the page! Laughable!
Idiotic! Like baseball caps worn backwards, men's ties, the bow tie,
cuffs on trousers, women's hats at the Melbourne Cup, default borders of
zero on tables, ...

So, how to satisfy this desire for a fixed navigation without running
into the evils of frames? Here is one way - adapted from past
discussions, no implication of all this being invented by me btw:

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/frames/pseudoFrames3.html>

And here is a simpler one using position:fixed but not quite like your
attempt. There are some curiosities in it:

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/alt/positionFixed3.html>

If you simply know your content is very much, then this latter might do
you. But if you start getting fussy about exactly where the footer
should be, it gets tricky. Easy to simply include the footer under the
content.

--
dorayme

In article <doraymeRidThis-D27B96.12183920062009 (AT) news (DOT) albasani.net>,
dorayme <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote:

http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/alt/positionFixed3.html

If you simply know your content is very much, then this latter might do
you. But if you start getting fussy about exactly where the footer
should be, it gets tricky. Easy to simply include the footer under the
content.

Actually, come to think of it, I now add a footer and in this particular
set up it should do what you want.

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:

In article <crV_l.19701$y61.17643 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au>,
Alex Bell <afjbell (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote:

http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/alt/footerDoesFoot.html

Thanks, I've saved your page and printed the mark-up to study. But as
I've said earlier I want the menu contained in the navigation div to be
visible at all times - ie fixed. I should have mentioned that in the
original post.

I'll modify your suggestion so it has a lot of material in the content
div, and see what happens to the dummy menu.

You will not be disappointed by the footer. It must always go below the
wrapper, *if* the wrapper *is made* to grow height for the float. If the
content, which is not floated, is the greater, the wrapper naturally
grows height, no need to *make* it do it.

This issue is slightly complicated, you might find it helpful to read
some of:

http://netweaver.com.au/floatHouse/

and especially around page 6.

You might be disappointed by the background of the body element showing
up underneath the navigation, not nice full-length column-like. If you
knew that your menu was always short, and there is a suggestion that it
probably is (otherwise, had your attempt at fixing it succeeded, it
would disappear off many screens), you could give the wrapper the same
coloured bg as the navigation. For example, at footerDoesFoot.html, put
in lots of content and change

#wrap {overflow: hidden;} /* which is to force the wrap to grow height
for its float if need be) */

to

#wrap {background-color:lime;} /* given the hypothesis under discussion,
no need to provide for wrapper growing, the content ensures it */

Of course, we cannot get deeply into the general subject of how to do
columns well right here.
Actually, in the 'production' version of the site the background colour

for the nav and content divs is transparent, so viewers just see the
body background gif and I don't need to worry about the column.

Now, about your desire for a fixed navigation column, I think this is a
*perfectly sensible desire*. I always admired the strength of frames for
this sort of thing. And so used to navigation scrolling away have I
become, that I have almost begun to believe B on this subject!

But the truth is that it is a ridiculous situation that we have all
gotten used to. It may well be the best thing to do given the
constraints of our tools and cross browser difficulties and other
technical roadblocks. But it is still, in itself, rather absurd for an
important site navigation to simply disappear off the page! Laughable!
Idiotic! Like baseball caps worn backwards, men's ties, the bow tie,
cuffs on trousers, women's hats at the Melbourne Cup, default borders of
zero on tables, ...

So, how to satisfy this desire for a fixed navigation without running
into the evils of frames? Here is one way - adapted from past
discussions, no implication of all this being invented by me btw:

http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/frames/pseudoFrames3.html

And here is a simpler one using position:fixed but not quite like your
attempt. There are some curiosities in it:

http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/alt/positionFixed3.html

If you simply know your content is very much, then this latter might do
you. But if you start getting fussy about exactly where the footer
should be, it gets tricky. Easy to simply include the footer under the
content.
Again, I need to download the pages and study them. Many thanks for the

examples

As it happens, on most pages on my site the content div is longer than
the menu/navigation div. It was only when I started to fuss with a
template which had little content that I realised that I had a problem
with the footer.

As I think you imply it probably is not important anyway; I just wanted
to know why and how to fix it.

--
Regards, Alex