Re: Awesome use of CSS

Re: <http://www.csszengarden.com/>
Lauri Raittila <lauri (AT) raittila (DOT) cjb.net> wrote:

Try it without images on O7.

I did. What's the problem? The decorative images go away, but the text
content is fine.

Try it on <600px window. You may miss menu.

Wow. There's a menu to the right. I didn't notice that at all the first
time I looked at it.

Looks most usable whitout stylesheet.

I wouldn't go that far. But the fixed-width design isn't a great example
for anyone to follow.
--
Darin McGrew, mcgrew (AT) stanfordalumni (DOT) org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, darin (AT) htmlhelp (DOT) com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

aquapella /"a-kw&-'pe-l&/ adj. sung in the shower

In article <bf6tib$v0o$2 (AT) blue (DOT) rahul.net>, Darin McGrew wrote:

Re: <http://www.csszengarden.com/
Lauri Raittila <lauri (AT) raittila (DOT) cjb.net> wrote:
Try it without images on O7.

I did. What's the problem? The decorative images go away, but the text
content is fine.

Hm. I lost the main heading. But I'm using 7.2beta, so maybe it is bug.
But I doubt it.
I can see it using user mode, so they are hiding real heading and making
one with background. It is much better to use real image, and have alt
text on the image.

There is second level heading under that chinese building (english for
that?), which I didn't notise either. Also third level heading is
partially behind that building

Try it on <600px window. You may miss menu.

Wow. There's a menu to the right. I didn't notice that at all the first
time I looked at it.

Me neither. I found it disabling CSS.

Looks most usable whitout stylesheet.

I wouldn't go that far. But the fixed-width design isn't a great example
for anyone to follow.

Well, I can't see menu on right, so the menu is not usable at all, and I
think it is important part of page.


--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.

"Darin McGrew" <mcgrew (AT) stanfordalumni (DOT) org> wrote

Re: <http://www.csszengarden.com/
Lauri Raittila <lauri (AT) raittila (DOT) cjb.net> wrote:
Try it without images on O7.

I did. What's the problem? The decorative images go away, but the text
content is fine.

I think the point of this is that you can use any of the stylesheets with

the page.
When the style hides the headings and substitutes a graphic,
a lot of the content goes away if the user does not display images.

But, as I said, the point is that you can get a lot of different looks by
changing the style (with no change to the content).
You can get some really, really bad designs and some good ones.
With enough monkeys at the keyboard (and they have quite a few),
eventually they will get it right.

[Steve]

Re: <http://www.csszengarden.com/>
Lauri Raittila <lauri (AT) raittila (DOT) cjb.net> wrote:

Try it without images on O7.

I wrote:

I did. What's the problem? The decorative images go away, but the text
content is fine.

Lauri Raittila <lauri (AT) raittila (DOT) cjb.net> wrote:

Hm. I lost the main heading. But I'm using 7.2beta, so maybe it is bug.
But I doubt it.
I can see it using user mode, so they are hiding real heading and making
one with background. It is much better to use real image, and have alt
text on the image.

Ah... Now I see the problem. I didn't see the "css Zen Garden" or "The
Beauty of CSS Design" headings until I disabled document CSS. It didn't
matter whether images were on or off. Blech.
--
Darin McGrew, mcgrew (AT) stanfordalumni (DOT) org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, darin (AT) htmlhelp (DOT) com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

The box said, "Requires Windows 98 or better." So I installed Linux.

On Thu, Jul 17, Darin McGrew inscribed on the eternal scroll:

Looks most usable whitout stylesheet.

Which confirms the general idea that if you're having accessibility
problems, then turning off the stylesheet should be a viable
workaround. And indeed it is here (it looks as if NN4 gets that
choice made for it anyway ;-)

It also eminently demonstrates the point that CSS does no harm at all
to text-mode browsers.

I wouldn't go that far. But the fixed-width design isn't a great example
for anyone to follow.

I haven't studied the internals yet, but on Mozilla (1.3.1) I see no
evidence of it behaving as a fixed-width design. On Opera 6.04, on
the other hand, it goes quite crazy as one varies the window width.

To be honest, I liked the way this site works: I find the various
styles that I tried were all attractive in their various ways. It
reacts well to changes of font size. Mozilla says it's in standards
mode. W3C CSS and HTML checks are 100%.

So, it pushes all the right buttons for me, and I'm willing to cut it
a bit of slack if there's a browser/version or two where it doesn't
quite pan out yet. On initial impressions: I was impressed.

cheers

In article <3f170412$1 (AT) 10 (DOT) 10.0.241>, Steven Dilley wrote:

"Darin McGrew" <mcgrew (AT) stanfordalumni (DOT) org> wrote in message
news:bf6tib$v0o$2 (AT) blue (DOT) rahul.net...
Re: <http://www.csszengarden.com/
Lauri Raittila <lauri (AT) raittila (DOT) cjb.net> wrote:
Try it without images on O7.

I did. What's the problem? The decorative images go away, but the text
content is fine.

I think the point of this is that you can use any of the stylesheets with
the page.

And ony stylesheet off the page, as they have CSS signature.

When the style hides the headings and substitutes a graphic,
a lot of the content goes away if the user does not display images.

Yes. I think that is possible to avoid. Might need some extra markup
thought. Need to think this more tomorrow.

But, as I said, the point is that you can get a lot of different looks by
changing the style (with no change to the content).

Well of course. It would be very stupid to require some changes in HTML
for different layouts. But everybody knows that, and it is hardly news.

You can get some really, really bad designs and some good ones.
With enough monkeys at the keyboard (and they have quite a few),
eventually they will get it right.

http://www.strangebanana.com/generator.aspx

It takes surprisingly little reloads. (well, he uses randomizer instead
of monkeys.)

Funny thing is, I would choose one of this pages layout instead of hand
mades on the http://www.csszengarden.com/

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.