What fonts are equivalent on different platforms?

I'm trying to design my style sheets such that my pages have
similar-looking fonts different platforms (Linux, Mac, Adobe,
X-Windows, MS Windows, etc).

The problem is, a font on one platform might be the same as a font on
another platform, but with different names. I'd like to be able to
specify the font names that are "most equivalent."

For example, "Lucida Console" is a very attractive and readable
monospaced font available in Windows. I now use it instead of
Courier for everything requiring monospaced text. I *think* that
the equivalent Mac font is "Monaco" -- but I'm not sure.

Another example: Arial in Windows looks like Helvetica on the
Mac. There are variants such as Helv and Univers that also look the
same. But what about other popular Windows fonts like Trebuchet
MS and Verdana? Do they have near-identical relatives on other
platforms?

Does anyone know of a resource that shows me what different fonts
look like on different platforms?

I did find http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
but the page shows them all rendered as Windows fonts. For example,
see Helvetica next to both Arial and Trebuchet; Helvetica looks like
either Arial or Trebuchet, but it can't be both. Even the Mac
screenshots look wrong; the all look like Windows fonts.

-Alex

axlq (AT) spamcop (DOT) net (axlq) writes:

Does anyone know of a resource that shows me what different fonts
look like on different platforms?

I did find http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
but the page shows them all rendered as Windows fonts. For example,
see Helvetica next to both Arial and Trebuchet; Helvetica looks like
either Arial or Trebuchet, but it can't be both. Even the Mac
screenshots look wrong; the all look like Windows fonts.

Speaking as a Mac user, I can tell you that page is quite accurate. I
have in fact bookmarked it for future reference.

Microsoft's "core fonts for the web" are also freely available. They're
included with most modern Linux distros, and also downloadable here:

<http://sourceforge.net/projects/font-tool>

If memory serves, that's Andale, Arial, MS Comic Sans, Georgia, Impact,
Times New Roman, Trebuchet, Verdana, and WebDings.

Finally, when you're writing your CSS, be sure to include a list of
alternatives, with the last one being a generic such as "sans-serif".

sherm--

--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

axlq wrote:

I'm trying to design my style sheets such that my pages have
similar-looking fonts different platforms (Linux, Mac, Adobe,
X-Windows, MS Windows, etc).

"Similar" is a bad target on the web. Aim for "best" or "most
appropriate" instead.

'Lucida Console' is a fine typeface as an alternative to Courier, so
use it. Only the Windows users (most of them) will see it, but it isn't
harmful to the Macs. If Macs have something similar (maybe Monaco, I
don't know) then use that too. But take a real Mac user's advice here,
not some reformatted screenshot -- things just look different on Macs,
owing to the gamma variations as much as anything.

CSS has good features for selecting fonts by preference and falling
back if they're not there. Make use of them.
font-family: 'lucida console', 'monaco', 'courier', monospace;
is a good setting - it works, it works better in most contexts, and
there isn't anywhere where it really fails.


Avoid Verdana. Verdana is an evil font that lies about its size. As a
result you just can't use it in conjunction with other fonts - you'd
see noticeably bad size inconsistencies if you ever used the CSS
fallback. If you must use Verdana, then use it alone.

As Verdana is also a poor typeface (i.e. the shape, ignoring the size
issues), then there's really no need to use it at all.

In article <m2y7uzf1gj.fsf (AT) Sherm-Pendleys-Computer (DOT) local>,
Sherm Pendley <sherm (AT) Sherm-Pendleys-Computer (DOT) local> wrote:

axlq (AT) spamcop (DOT) net (axlq) writes:
I did find http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
but the page shows them all rendered as Windows fonts. For example,
see Helvetica next to both Arial and Trebuchet; Helvetica looks like
either Arial or Trebuchet, but it can't be both. Even the Mac
screenshots look wrong; the all look like Windows fonts.

Speaking as a Mac user, I can tell you that page is quite accurate. I
have in fact bookmarked it for future reference.

That's good to know, thanks. The innacuracy that glares out at me is
with Helvetica, which apppears in different places, and looks different
in each place.

Finally, when you're writing your CSS, be sure to include a list of
alternatives, with the last one being a generic such as "sans-serif".

Yes, I do that already. Initially I was using all generic font
names in my pages, but then I decided I liked how Trebuchet MS
made my pages look, and Lucida Console is such a nicer font than
Courier, that I want to be sure that I have a consistent look across
platforms.

-Alex

In article <1152708676.178230.315320 (AT) m79g2000cwm (DOT) googlegroups.com>,
Andy Dingley <dingbat (AT) codesmiths (DOT) com> wrote:

CSS has good features for selecting fonts by preference and falling
back if they're not there. Make use of them.
font-family: 'lucida console', 'monaco', 'courier', monospace;
is a good setting - it works, it works better in most contexts, and
there isn't anywhere where it really fails.

I do that but I eliminate 'monaco' -- just having 'monospace' in there
is a sufficient fallback.

Avoid Verdana. Verdana is an evil font that lies about its size.

I am aware of all the issues with Verdana. In the site I'm
developing, I don't use it at all.

As Verdana is also a poor typeface (i.e. the shape, ignoring the size
issues), then there's really no need to use it at all.

Verdana actually makes nice headings (h1, h2, etc.), but I no longer
use it for body text because it consumes too much space for its
size.

-A

axlq (AT) spamcop (DOT) net (axlq) writes:

In article <m2y7uzf1gj.fsf (AT) Sherm-Pendleys-Computer (DOT) local>,
Sherm Pendley <sherm (AT) Sherm-Pendleys-Computer (DOT) local> wrote:
axlq (AT) spamcop (DOT) net (axlq) writes:
I did find http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
but the page shows them all rendered as Windows fonts. For example,
see Helvetica next to both Arial and Trebuchet; Helvetica looks like
either Arial or Trebuchet, but it can't be both. Even the Mac
screenshots look wrong; the all look like Windows fonts.

Speaking as a Mac user, I can tell you that page is quite accurate. I
have in fact bookmarked it for future reference.

That's good to know, thanks. The innacuracy that glares out at me is
with Helvetica, which apppears in different places, and looks different
in each place.

My eyes must be getting old - I can't see much of a difference. Maybe the
second one is a tiny bit bigger.

sherm--

--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

Sherm Pendley wrote:

Microsoft's "core fonts for the web" are also freely available. They're
included with most modern Linux distros, and also downloadable here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/font-tool

If memory serves, that's Andale, Arial, MS Comic Sans, Georgia, Impact,
Times New Roman, Trebuchet, Verdana, and WebDings.

That doesn't much help, of course, since it's the users, not the page
designer, who need to have these fonts, and they're not going to
download them just because your CSS calls for them--they won't even
*know* that your CSS refers to them.

Harlan Messinger <hmessinger.removethis (AT) comcast (DOT) net> writes:

Sherm Pendley wrote:
Microsoft's "core fonts for the web" are also freely available. They're
included with most modern Linux distros, and also downloadable here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/font-tool
If memory serves, that's Andale, Arial, MS Comic Sans, Georgia,
Impact,
Times New Roman, Trebuchet, Verdana, and WebDings.

That doesn't much help, of course, since it's the users, not the page
designer, who need to have these fonts

That's why I pointed out that most (obviously not all) users do have them,
even a large number of Linux users.

And that's also why I pointed out, in the part of my post that you conveniently
snipped for the sake of making a condescending response, the importance of
adding a generic "family" name like "sans-serif" at the end of the list.

, and they're not going to
download them just because your CSS calls for them--they won't even
*know* that your CSS refers to them.

Why thank you Captain Obvious.

Do you have anything *useful* to add, or is this just a pissing contest?

sherm--

--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, Sherm Pendley wrote:

Microsoft's "core fonts for the web" are also freely available.

Those old things have a poor character repertoire. Installing them,
on a platform that doesn't have the font names in question, might make
the result worse than what that platform would do if it was left to
use its best fallback font. If you see what I mean.

Installing them on a platform that *does* have a more recent version
of the said fonts will most certainly cause harm. So proceed with
caution.

If memory serves, that's Andale, Arial, MS Comic Sans, Georgia,
Impact, Times New Roman, Trebuchet, Verdana,

I hope no-one's in any doubt here about the difficulties with Verdana.
If font-size-adjust had been developed to the point of usefulness, it
might be possible to work with Verdana, but, the way things are, I'd
definitely counsel against it. sbpoley refers ;-)

and WebDings.

Ouch!!! Don't *ever* do that with HTML. If you're unlucky, it might
appear to do what you want. For many of your users, though, it will
work to the HTML specification, which means it won't do what you want.

See my page
http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/...ntface-harmful

thanks

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, axlq wrote:

The problem is, a font on one platform might be the same as a font on
another platform, but with different names.

Another example: Arial in Windows looks like Helvetica on the
Mac.

I did find http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
but the page shows them all rendered as Windows fonts.

You are confused and the author of this page is confused.

First:
Most typefaces exist at least for Macintosh and MS Windows,
often also in two formats (TrueType and PostScript). So there is
Arial for MS Windows, Arial for Macintosh, Helvetica for MS Windows,
Helvetica for Macintosh.

Second:
Arial looks no more like Helvetica than Terence Hill looks like
Franco Nero.