Form

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 05/02/09 13:54, Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/30/09 10:12, Kevin Scholl wrote:
On Apr 29, 7:59 pm, Gregor Kofler <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) com> wrote:
shapper meinte:

I found a form that I saw a long time ago:
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/form2col.html
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/formvalidate.html
What do you think?
Breaks horribly, if the labels need two lines (zoom a bit...)
As the developer fo those examples, I wouldn't say "horribly", but
Then I don't think you're seeing what I'm seeing. When the labels
need two lines, they start to interfere with the other rows in
the table, such that you can't tell what the labels are or what
they are associated with.

If it's not "horrible", I don't understand the meaning of that word :-)
Why don't you toss up a screenshot? I don't see "horribly", I see
barely at high zoom.

Jeff

Ok: <http://www.mehconsulting.com/ksscholl.jpg

Notice how the labels are indented badly and the third word for
the label is actually on the next line?

I think this looks horrible; YMMV

Perhaps SeaMonkey gets it wrong. I dunno... I know little about Sea
Monkey other than it has a market share rivaling Konquerer.

What's it look like to you in FF or Safari? I simple don't see this
in FF at levels of zoom at 6 or even higher. Both are supposed to have
the same core, more or less...

Jeff

Best Regards,

dorayme wrote:

In article <2DZKl.9436$im1.9042 (AT) nlpi061 (DOT) nbdc.sbc.com>,
Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:

What is interesting is how many things qualify as lists, and how
creative you can be styling them. Lists are a real workhorse.

I am glad you have noticed this. A great deal of human linguistic
behaviour can be described in list-like terms and one must be careful
not to go overboard with the ULs otherwise they will lose any *useful*
semantic crispness they might have.

What special meaning should we reserve for ul, other than a list?
Should we have less paragraphs because they are overused?

But then I look at things from the other end. I look at the native
format of the content of the page. For me, navigation often comes in as
a list (from the database), and I simply leave it at that. Since I
largely work with databases, that is a different decision than deciding
what format to put it in. That helps me move on to the next unfinished
bit of business...

I look at forms similarly, although I usually see them two
dimensionally as tables, but I can also see them one dimensionally as
label/element pairs. I'll use whatever way is easiest for me to set up
that is reasonably symantically accurate. 99.5% of the site visitors
will never know the difference or care. We cater to the .5% in this group.

Jeff

Jeff wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/02/09 13:54, Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/30/09 10:12, Kevin Scholl wrote:
On Apr 29, 7:59 pm, Gregor Kofler <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) com> wrote:
shapper meinte:

I found a form that I saw a long time ago:
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/form2col.html
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/formvalidate.html
What do you think?
Breaks horribly, if the labels need two lines (zoom a bit...)
As the developer fo those examples, I wouldn't say "horribly", but
Then I don't think you're seeing what I'm seeing. When the labels
need two lines, they start to interfere with the other rows in
the table, such that you can't tell what the labels are or what
they are associated with.

If it's not "horrible", I don't understand the meaning of that word :-)
Why don't you toss up a screenshot? I don't see "horribly", I see
barely at high zoom.

Jeff

Ok: <http://www.mehconsulting.com/ksscholl.jpg

Notice how the labels are indented badly and the third word for
the label is actually on the next line?

I think this looks horrible; YMMV

Perhaps SeaMonkey gets it wrong. I dunno... I know little about Sea
Monkey other than it has a market share rivaling Konquerer.

SM is based on Gecko, the same as Firefox. The page has the same
problem in FF as Mark indicated.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody
appreciates how difficult it was.

In article <NNjLl.15636$hc1.2098 (AT) flpi150 (DOT) ffdc.sbc.com>,
Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:

dorayme wrote:
In article <2DZKl.9436$im1.9042 (AT) nlpi061 (DOT) nbdc.sbc.com>,
Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:

What is interesting is how many things qualify as lists, and how
creative you can be styling them. Lists are a real workhorse.

I am glad you have noticed this. A great deal of human linguistic
behaviour can be described in list-like terms and one must be careful
not to go overboard with the ULs otherwise they will lose any *useful*
semantic crispness they might have.

What special meaning should we reserve for ul, other than a list?

I tend to just use a UL for anything that is a list where the order is
not of *significance* to the user, where there are no special needs to
present the list that a table would satisfy better, and where there is
no more specific element to do the job.

Should we have less paragraphs because they are overused?

Definitely, there should be less of anything when that is overused. <g>

....

I'll use whatever way is easiest for me to set up
that is reasonably symantically accurate. 99.5% of the site visitors
will never know the difference or care. We cater to the .5% in this group.

When a client asks me to do a job, I explain that though they pay, I do
it so that Bergamot would not be as unhappy as he could be with it. (wtf
is Bergamot, cat got his tongue? I miss the bastard, funnily enough. <g>)

--
dorayme

Jeff wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
shapper meinte:

http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/form2col.html

http://www.mehconsulting.com/ksscholl.jpg

Notice how the labels are indented badly and the third word for
the label is actually on the next line?

I don't see the effect with my normal text size (20px, 17px minimum). I
have to zoom text to 200% before I see it. Can't say when it really
kicks in, though, since those pages use fixed px font sizes and my
minimum overrides it.

Perhaps SeaMonkey gets it wrong.

FYI, it's extremely unlikely SeaMonkey will get it any more wrong than
Firefox.

--
Berg

In article <NNjLl.15636$hc1.2098 (AT) flpi150 (DOT) ffdc.sbc.com>,
Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:
[snip]

I look at forms similarly, although I usually see them two
dimensionally as tables, but I can also see them one dimensionally as
label/element pairs. I'll use whatever way is easiest for me to set up
that is reasonably symantically accurate. 99.5% of the site visitors

Would that be symantically antivirus accurate, or symatically system tool
accurate? Either way, my experience suggests there could be a fairly
large margin of error...

On May 3, 1:08*pm, Ed Mullen <e... (AT) edmullen (DOT) net> wrote:

Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/02/09 13:54, Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/30/09 10:12, Kevin Scholl wrote:
On Apr 29, 7:59 pm, Gregor Kofler <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) com> wrote:
shapper meinte:

I found a form that I saw a long time ago:
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/form2col.html
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/formvalidate.html
What do you think?
Breaks horribly, if the labels need two lines (zoom a bit...)
As the developer fo those examples, I wouldn't say "horribly", but
Then I don't think you're seeing what I'm seeing. When the labels
need two lines, they start to interfere with the other rows in
the table, such that you can't tell what the labels are or what
they are associated with.

If it's not "horrible", I don't understand the meaning of that word :-)
* *Why don't you toss up a screenshot? I don't see "horribly", I see
barely at high zoom.

* *Jeff

Ok: <http://www.mehconsulting.com/ksscholl.jpg

Notice how the labels are indented badly and the third word for
the label is actually on the next line?

I think this looks horrible; YMMV

Perhaps SeaMonkey gets it wrong. *I dunno... I know little about Sea
Monkey other than it has a market share rivaling Konquerer.

SM is based on Gecko, the same as Firefox. *The page has the same
problem in FF as Mark indicated.

Interesting. I don't get the indentation in Firefox, no matter how far
I zoom...

Kevin Scholl wrote:

On May 3, 1:08 pm, Ed Mullen <e... (AT) edmullen (DOT) net> wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/02/09 13:54, Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/30/09 10:12, Kevin Scholl wrote:
On Apr 29, 7:59 pm, Gregor Kofler <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) com> wrote:
shapper meinte:
I found a form that I saw a long time ago:
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/form2col.html
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/formvalidate.html
What do you think?
Breaks horribly, if the labels need two lines (zoom a bit...)
As the developer fo those examples, I wouldn't say "horribly", but
Then I don't think you're seeing what I'm seeing. When the labels
need two lines, they start to interfere with the other rows in
the table, such that you can't tell what the labels are or what
they are associated with.
If it's not "horrible", I don't understand the meaning of that word :-)
Why don't you toss up a screenshot? I don't see "horribly", I see
barely at high zoom.
Jeff
Ok: <http://www.mehconsulting.com/ksscholl.jpg
Notice how the labels are indented badly and the third word for
the label is actually on the next line?
I think this looks horrible; YMMV
Perhaps SeaMonkey gets it wrong. I dunno... I know little about Sea
Monkey other than it has a market share rivaling Konquerer.
SM is based on Gecko, the same as Firefox. The page has the same
problem in FF as Mark indicated.

Interesting. I don't get the indentation in Firefox, no matter how far
I zoom...

Ditto here. Can you the OP post this up?

Jeff

David Stone wrote:

In article <NNjLl.15636$hc1.2098 (AT) flpi150 (DOT) ffdc.sbc.com>,
Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:
[snip]
I look at forms similarly, although I usually see them two
dimensionally as tables, but I can also see them one dimensionally as
label/element pairs. I'll use whatever way is easiest for me to set up
that is reasonably symantically accurate. 99.5% of the site visitors

Would that be symantically antivirus accurate, or symatically system tool
accurate? Either way, my experience suggests there could be a fairly
large margin of error...

What about symantically Condi Rice?

Ideally the web should have a large margin of error, clients tend to
think everything should be like a word doc or a pdf though...

I have a few friends with very poor sight, One of them was a test
patient for the Emory Eye Clinic, another is legally blind, and yet the
margin of error is much smaller than several of those here.

Now, I don't know how those with severely impaired vision handle the
differences between tables and lists, but I'll bear that in mind if they
wish to weigh in. I view this as a balancing act, with myself trying to
stay employed!

Jeff

Jeff wrote:

Kevin Scholl wrote:
On May 3, 1:08 pm, Ed Mullen <e... (AT) edmullen (DOT) net> wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/02/09 13:54, Jeff wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/30/09 10:12, Kevin Scholl wrote:
On Apr 29, 7:59 pm, Gregor Kofler <use... (AT) gregorkofler (DOT) com> wrote:
shapper meinte:
I found a form that I saw a long time ago:
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/form2col.html
http://beta.ksscholl.com/jquery/formvalidate.html
What do you think?
Breaks horribly, if the labels need two lines (zoom a bit...)
As the developer fo those examples, I wouldn't say "horribly", but
Then I don't think you're seeing what I'm seeing. When the labels
need two lines, they start to interfere with the other rows in
the table, such that you can't tell what the labels are or what
they are associated with.
If it's not "horrible", I don't understand the meaning of that
word :-)
Why don't you toss up a screenshot? I don't see "horribly", I see
barely at high zoom.
Jeff
Ok: <http://www.mehconsulting.com/ksscholl.jpg
Notice how the labels are indented badly and the third word for
the label is actually on the next line?
I think this looks horrible; YMMV
Perhaps SeaMonkey gets it wrong. I dunno... I know little about Sea
Monkey other than it has a market share rivaling Konquerer.
SM is based on Gecko, the same as Firefox. The page has the same
problem in FF as Mark indicated.

Interesting. I don't get the indentation in Firefox, no matter how far
I zoom...


Ditto here. Can you the OP post this up?

Jeff

I see the same problems in SeaMonkey 1.1.16 and Firefox 2.0.0.20.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
UnHallmark Card: I'm so miserable without you - it's almost like you're
here.