Firefox and Netscape padding top of unordered list

Terry wrote:

Thanks again Jonathan.

If I am not explicitly stating the position type is the static type
being used? And is that the type that I should be using most of the
time?

I also wanted to let you know (and anyone else for that matter) that
this is my first attempt to layout a page with CSS. I'll get there
eventually.

Is this first attempt really that bad?

Yes in a way that it is overly complicated which it not help you in the
learning process. My advice is to start simply first.

Create the page with *no* style and markup semantically, e.i., put
paragraphs in paragraphs and headings in headings and list in lists.

Validate your HTML.

Then think about style. You do not have to wrap everything in nested
DIVs and SPANs. Learn how to use selectors so you do not have to pepper
your source with countless classes. You can get quite specify for an
element without having to create a new class by referencing through a
parent element with a class

div.navbar ul {}

can specifically style a navigation link list without effecting other
lists on your page *and* without having to create some class for your UL
element...

Keep your styling in a separate stylesheet and try to keep your markup
as clean and clear of styling as possible which will greatly simplify
editing and maintenance of the site.

Learn the correct way first and then you will not have to unlearn bad
habits to learn good ones later.


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

If I am not explicitly stating the position type is the static type
being used? And is that the type that I should be using most of the
time?

Thanks Jonathan.

I will try to follow your advice.

Unfortunately nobody answered the questions I posed earlier which are
shown again above.
Could you address that for me please.

--
Thanks,

Terry

Terry wrote:

On Aug 23, 12:00 pm, Bergamot <berga... (AT) visi (DOT) com> wrote:

If what you have so far is any indication of the type or quality of
instruction you've received, then you've not gotten your money's worth.

Actually Berg the place where I am doing the internship has not taught
us anything about accomplishing layout with CSS.
I am trying to learn it on my own.

You have my sympathies, but you must realize that this is *not*
something you can learn overnight.

I am just being lazy. I hope to convert all the
inline code to that of the external sheet later.

Doing it wrong is just making more work for yourself, and will not
result in a better product.

In case you were wondering, the internship that I am doing consists of
html, asp, dreamweaver, flash and photoshop. We only received 3 hours
per topic of class time. Essentially we had to teach ourselves the
material by going over the manuals that they provided as well as the
online tutorials that they also produced.

If your attempt so far reflects the quality of their training materials,
I think you wasted your money.

I do plan on getting better with the css.

You need to start by getting better with HTML first. CSS should not come
before that.

If you have a chance, could you possibly show me how you would lay the
page with out using css.

Sorry, I don't have the time to do that, but try this:

Imagine the page with no styling or positioning all - just the text.
Put it on paper how it should logically read, *top down*.
Put proper markup around each element - heading, paragraph, list, etc.

Only then should you think about CSS, and grouping elements in div
containers so you can style them collectively.

Are there any resources (online or in book form) that you suggest that
I consult?

I don't own any CSS books, nor have I ever read any so can't recommend
any. I've never really used online tutorials, either. The only
references I use are the specs at W3C.

Most of what I know I learned from hanging around in these newsgroups
(for nearly 10 years) and reading the specs. The only online tutorials
I've heard positive feedback on are at htmldog.com and the positioning
tutorial at http://brainjar.com/css/positioning/

You might start there. Remember, you gotta crawl before you can walk,
and I don't think you are even crawling yet.

--
Berg

Thanks for getting back to me Berg.

I think that I should reiterate that we did not learn any css within
the internship. What I have done so far is what I have learned in the
last week and a half through trial and error, receiving feedback
through people in the newsgroups, and consulting online resources.

So I can't blame the internship for my knowledge or lack thereof of
css. I think they were expecting me to use tables for the layout and
probably use dreamweaver as much as possible too. (That would include
for layout as well as generating javascript for image rollovers.)

If you have a chance, could you possibly show me how you would lay the
page with out using css.

I accidentally asked if you could show me how to layout the page
without using css. I meant to ask you how you would lay it out with
css.

Am I correct in believing that I should avoid the use of positioning
things absolutely as much as I can?

--
Thanks,

Terry

Terry wrote:

If I am not explicitly stating the position type is the static type
being used? And is that the type that I should be using most of the
time?


Thanks Jonathan.

I will try to follow your advice.

Unfortunately nobody answered the questions I posed earlier which are
shown again above.
Could you address that for me please.

Well if you'd follow the advice and learn a bit more then you'd discover
it would be 'static' the default.


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Terry schreef:

Am I correct in believing that I should avoid the use of positioning
things absolutely as much as I can?

--
Thanks,

Terry

You should *not* use any positioning at all
just don't write down the word 'position: ".

There is another matter you should turn your attention to
and that's your sig.
By sig we mean the following:

--
Thanks,

Terry


You're supposed to type the following: [ENTER]--[SPACE][ENTER] and then
the rest.

That is: 2 dashes followed by a space then an 'enter'

If you type your sig this way, the programmes we use to read usenet
postings will know what to do with it.

--
Rob

Will do Rob.
--
Thanks,
Terry

Rob Waaijenberg schreef:

Terry schreef:

Am I correct in believing that I should avoid the use of positioning
things absolutely as much as I can?

--
Thanks,

Terry


You should *not* use any positioning at all
just don't write down the word 'position: ".

There is another matter you should turn your attention to
and that's your sig.
By sig we mean the following:

--
Oops,
this shows what happens if you do it the right way.

:>)

Terry wrote:

So I can't blame the internship for my knowledge or lack thereof of
css. I think they were expecting me to use tables for the layout and
probably use dreamweaver as much as possible too.

Oh, yes, you should blame them for your lack of knowledge. They should
not be teaching a class on web tools or technologies if they aren't also
giving you guidance on best practices. They are failing miserably in
that respect.

I accidentally asked if you could show me how to layout the page
without using css. I meant to ask you how you would lay it out with
css.

I knew what you meant, and I answered accordingly.

Am I correct in believing that I should avoid the use of positioning
things absolutely as much as I can?

You shouldn't use anything you don't fully understand. Otherwise, you'll
likely end up with a disaster.

--
Berg

Tell me you are not that slow!

Terry wrote:

Will do Rob.

Will do what?

--
^

Still no space, you know that biggie bar-type key along the bottom of
your keyboard...

Thanks,
Terry

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com