CSS drop-down menus

Stan Brown wrote:

Wed, 06 May 2009 14:31:12 -0400 from Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net>:
I'm experimenting with drop-down menus using one of Stu Nichols' designs:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/final_drop.html

I don't know about that one in particular, but I found the ones that
I've tried very frustrating because he does so much of them in pixels
and with fixed font sizes. The result, as you observe, is that they
don't scale at all well.

It's a pity because he's obviously got a lot of ability and he is
very generous in making these designs available. YMMV, but I found
that once I had settled on one of his designs I had to do a lot of
tweaking to make it work under even a reasonable amount of browser-
based resizing.

Yeah, that's what I'm finding, Stan.

However, the reason I'm playing with it is that it doesn't require
javascript and some other hacks to be workable in older versions of IE.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

dorayme wrote:

In article <2ppaij.1v3.19.1 (AT) news (DOT) alt.net>, Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net
wrote:

I'm experimenting with drop-down menus using one of Stu Nichols' designs:

...
My test-case files:

http://edmullen.net/menutest.php

Any help or advice greatly appreciated. I don't have enough hair left
to keep pulling it out.

Don't bite my head off Ed, but was there some problem getting rid of the
validation errors I am seeing? I would think that maybe this is always a
good start to eliminate things from our enquiries.

Hey, no problem. And an always sensible suggestion. However, none of
the HTML validation errors are in the menu structure, just the
boilerplate body text. The two minor erros in the CSS also weren't
causing any problem.

I had you marked out for a position in my new vigilante detective frying
squad (a team of undercover "chefs" I need for a special operation...
don't ask).

Umm, ok, I'll await further instructions. :-)

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Confidence is the feeling you have before you really understand the problem.

Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> writes:

That may not be the case here, but perfectly Valid code does not
necessarily make a well functioning site.

True - but it does eliminate one possible cause when investigating a
broken site.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

In article <2prgko.m3c.19.1 (AT) news (DOT) alt.net>, Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net>
wrote:

Don't bite my head off Ed, but was there some problem getting rid of the
validation errors I am seeing? I would think that maybe this is always a
good start to eliminate things from our enquiries.

Hey, no problem. And an always sensible suggestion. However, none of
the HTML validation errors are in the menu structure, just the
boilerplate body text. The two minor erros in the CSS also weren't
causing any problem.

I am sure you are right. I want now to modify my suggestion, to weaken
or strengthen it depending on your point of view: If a troublesome
layout has validation errors, either fix them up or don't. If you don't,
consider saying you know they are irrelevant.

Now, because I know this sounds a bit ... well... moralistic... I will
compensate - I am reminded of this one because this morning I have to
ring the tax office - with:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/jokes/taxmanRabbi.html>

--
dorayme

In article <cgsMl.15845$hc1.14801 (AT) flpi150 (DOT) ffdc.sbc.com>,
Jeff <jeff_thies (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:
I'm experimenting with drop-down menus using one of Stu Nichols' designs:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/final_drop.html

My test-case files:

http://edmullen.net/menutest.php
http://edmullen.net/styles/menutest.css

Here's my problem. I can position the right and left fly-out
third-level menus. However, if the text is zoomed/enlarged, the space
between the second-level item and the fly-out changes. I've tried px, %
and em units with no success.

I looked at one of the samples here:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/flyout2.html

and notice that there is no problem there. So, I'm thinking you need to
either pick a different menu (it is unreal the number he has made) or
take the stylesheet back to square one and see what changes you've made
that break it.

Did you try looking at the Ruthsarian menus? There are drop down
versions of those.

http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/rMenu/

In article <no.email-DE2865.10221408052009 (AT) news1 (DOT) chem.utoronto.ca>,
David Stone <no.email (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote:

....

Perhaps someone should remind everyone here that drop down menus are
often a bloody nuisance to make and maintain, and often an excuse for
poor design of the website in the first place. And multi level ones are
often of doubtful value all things considered.

They are to be avoided by anyone new to website making in the same way
that website generators are to be avoided.

--
dorayme

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
<doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
78D8C5.08425209052009 (AT) news (DOT) albasani.net:

In article <no.email-DE2865.10221408052009 (AT) news1 (DOT) chem.utoronto.ca>,
David Stone <no.email (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote:

...

Perhaps someone should remind everyone here that drop down menus are
often a bloody nuisance to make and maintain, and often an excuse for
poor design of the website in the first place. And multi level ones are
often of doubtful value all things considered.

They are to be avoided by anyone new to website making in the same way
that website generators are to be avoided.

Thank you, my dear friend! I am redoing a site
[http://kitchenbuilders.net/]. It's got all sorts of problems. Probably
the worst is a javascript generated multilevel menu. No js - no way to
navigate.

I was thinking about redoing correctly, but the more I think about it,
the more I realize it's more a matter of reorganization that fixing bad
navigation.

I really don't like multi-level flyout type menus, they are a PITA if you
don't move your mouse in just the right way. That goes for web based,
and programs.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

In article <Xns9C05AC2F766D0arbpenyahoocom (AT) 207 (DOT) 115.33.102>,
Adrienne Boswell <arbpen (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
78D8C5.08425209052009 (AT) news (DOT) albasani.net:

In article <no.email-DE2865.10221408052009 (AT) news1 (DOT) chem.utoronto.ca>,
David Stone <no.email (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote:

...

Perhaps someone should remind everyone here that drop down menus are
often a bloody nuisance to make and maintain, and often an excuse for
poor design of the website in the first place. And multi level ones are
often of doubtful value all things considered.

They are to be avoided by anyone new to website making in the same way
that website generators are to be avoided.


Thank you, my dear friend! I am redoing a site
[http://kitchenbuilders.net/]. It's got all sorts of problems. Probably
the worst is a javascript generated multilevel menu. No js - no way to
navigate.

I was thinking about redoing correctly, but the more I think about it,
the more I realize it's more a matter of reorganization that fixing bad
navigation.

I really don't like multi-level flyout type menus, they are a PITA if you
don't move your mouse in just the right way. That goes for web based,
and programs.

Yes, I think good navigation follows naturally upon good organization.
To try to fix up poor organization by a super drop down is really
sweeping things under the carpet. A website is not like a city such as
Sydney, easy enough to get about if you have a great street directory!

I looked at the site you are to redo and that menu flashes on and off as
you hold the mouse over it to read the submenus - very distracting!

But, apart from this, here is a good example of what should be avoided.
A nice thing for a home page to be is *uncomplicated*. Sure, folks want
to know where to look for different sorts of slabs. But not everyone
knows or is interested in what types there are straight off to the
extent that they want to go to the trouble of doing pesky mousy things.

A simple 'slabs' menu item should do, and on the destination, say to the
page of the most popular type of slab, a visible local menu to pages for
other slab types. What can be simpler and more useful? By the author
choosing the most popular and likely page as destination, he or she
caters for more people straight off. And others are not disadvantaged
because they had to mess about the other way too (with the dropdown)

(btw, considering a lot of the pics do not have captions, you have a
perfect excuse to float them and avoid the table and its inability to
wrap lines and so not be as flexible for different screens.

Now, where is that thing I used for pics of my daughter's wedding? Here
it is, you would need simpler still, no captions:

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/2jcs5r>
)

--
dorayme

dorayme <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> writes:

They are to be avoided by anyone new to website making in the same way
that website generators are to be avoided.

Generators are to be avoided? Then how am I supposed to power my data
center when the power grid fails, hmmm? Not everyone has access to your
fancy Martian technology, you know!

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

In article <m1k54r9g0d.fsf (AT) dot-app (DOT) org>,
Sherm Pendley <spamtrap (AT) dot-app (DOT) org> wrote:

dorayme <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> writes:

They are to be avoided by anyone new to website making in the same way
that website generators are to be avoided.

Generators are to be avoided? Then how am I supposed to power my data
center when the power grid fails, hmmm? Not everyone has access to your
fancy Martian technology, you know!

I always recommend that *newbie data* centre operators operate the crank
handle in such situations. Like on old Rovers and Bentleys when the
batteries are flat. <g>

--
dorayme