Before You Begin Coding..You Should...?

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:23:59 +1100, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
<doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au>
<doraymeRidThis-8455C4.11235910012008 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:

| In article <ofjao3hpojnn7jpu09jn93blrb547bu7pi (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
| Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:
|
| > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:57:55 +1100, in
| > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
| > <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
| > <doraymeRidThis-76F046.11575522122007 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:
|
| > >| As for getting the image (permission is
| > >| different issue), you just right click and save it to disk.
|
| > It is nice to know that you condone theft of intellectual property.

[snip a lot of froth and bubble to try and justify IP theft]

| Why don't you apologise? Or email me privately so I can get
| better satisfaction at this outrage of yours. Please use capital
| letters in the subject field so I notice it and use "Hit me Baby
| with the filthiest language ever heard on earth!"

What a strange mating ritual you have?
-- -------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau (AT) yourpantsyahoo (DOT) com.au : Remove your pants to reply
-- -------------------------------------------------------------

In article <koobo3lkhd8pmtcbdfr317rucm740ubrts (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:23:59 +1100, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
doraymeRidThis-8455C4.11235910012008...ptusnet.com.au> wrote:

| In article <ofjao3hpojnn7jpu09jn93blrb547bu7pi (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
| Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:
|
| > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:57:55 +1100, in
| > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
| > <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
| > <doraymeRidThis-76F046.11575522122007 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:
|
| > >| As for getting the image (permission is
| > >| different issue), you just right click and save it to disk.
|
| > It is nice to know that you condone theft of intellectual property.

[snip a lot of froth and bubble to try and justify IP theft]

You snip it, of course, because you are not big enough to look at
the distinction being made. Either you have a mental incapacity
or you speak in bad faith. Let me repeat it for the benefit of
anyone that might be tempted by your lowness:

"Permission is one issue, technical how is another issue.
Discussing the technical aspect does not mean one condones theft.
If someone asks how to steal something and you tell them, that is
one thing. But if someone asks how to do something that can be
perfectly legal in any number of contexts then there is not much
wrong in telling them especially if one actually reminds them of
the legal issue. Of course, with types like you, everyone and
anyone is immediately under the suspicion of the worst
motivations".

--
dorayme

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:11:40 +1100, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
<doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au>
<doraymeRidThis-652BDE.14114011012008 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:

| In article <koobo3lkhd8pmtcbdfr317rucm740ubrts (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
| Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:
|
| > On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:23:59 +1100, in
| > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
| > <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
| > <doraymeRidThis-8455C4.11235910012008 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:
|
| > >| In article <ofjao3hpojnn7jpu09jn93blrb547bu7pi (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
| > >| Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:
| > >|
| > >| > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:57:55 +1100, in
| > >| > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
| > >| > <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
| > >| > <doraymeRidThis-76F046.11575522122007 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:
| > >|
| > >| > >| As for getting the image (permission is
| > >| > >| different issue), you just right click and save it to disk.
| > >|
| > >| > It is nice to know that you condone theft of intellectual property.
|
| > [snip a lot of froth and bubble to try and justify IP theft]
|
| You snip it, of course, because you are not big enough to look at
| the distinction being made.

So you'd have no problem if someone wrote:
If you walk into a store and see a product you like just put it into
your pocket then walk out of the store (you might be stopped by
security personnel).

| Either you have a mental incapacity
| or you speak in bad faith. Let me repeat it for the benefit of
| anyone that might be tempted by your lowness:
|
| "Permission is one issue, technical how is another issue.
| Discussing the technical aspect does not mean one condones theft.
| If someone asks how to steal something and you tell them, that is
| one thing.

In law, isn't that called accessory to the fact/crime?

| But if someone asks how to do something that can be
| perfectly legal in any number of contexts then there is not much
| wrong in telling them especially if one actually reminds them of
| the legal issue.

Theft, in any form, is illegal.

| Of course, with types like you, everyone and
| anyone is immediately under the suspicion of the worst
| motivations".

Well then you'd have no problem in giving the url of one of your
websites that you've designed so I can copy the site, change a few
items and then call it my own.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau (AT) yourpantsyahoo (DOT) com.au : Remove your pants to reply
-- -------------------------------------------------------------

In article <9kkeo393qq8i4smumrl97qedah6lielq04 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:

doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au

| > [snip a lot of froth and bubble to try and justify IP theft]
|
| You snip it, of course, because you are not big enough to look at
| the distinction being made.

So you'd have no problem if someone wrote:
If you walk into a store and see a product you like just put it into
your pocket then walk out of the store (you might be stopped by
security personnel).

You snipped it again. Who can judge now how little your
conclusion follows from my words?

You seem quite unable to see things in context. It is almost
never ok to "just put" something in your pocket and "walk out of
a store". It is very often quite ok to grab a pic from a website
and stick it on your desktop. I do it on a daily basis with my
own pictures and my own webpages as a lazy way to avoid going
through my file system.

I know it appears mean to say this but you have insulted me and
when this happens, I relax all the rules.

You, Jeff North, appear to have an arrested moral development.
There is a lovely story about this in relation to another morally
trigger happy individual, more famous than your holier-than-thou
self, a person no less of stature than the current president of
the USA.

In his book, The President of Good and Evil, Peter Singer relates
a story about Bush that illustrates this. The President is
pre-recording a speech for broadcast on the following Saturday in
which he is required to say the words "On this fine Saturday, I
...." or words to this effect. But he keeps stopping and finding
it perplexing and feels it wrong to lie. "I can't say this, it is
not Saturday today!" he says to the amazed studio technicians...

Here is something to save the trouble of explaining further, some
words by Colin McGinn in a Washington Post review:

"Singer speculates that the president might well be stuck at what
the developmental psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg called the level
of conventional morality, characteristic of teenagers, in which
simple moral rules constitute one's moral outlook, and the idea
that such rules might conflict hasn't sunk in (as the rules
"Don't lie" and "Don't cause harm" can conflict if a murderer
asks you the whereabouts of his next victim). Bush does seem
sincere enough in his moral opinions, contrary to an entirely
cynical interpretation of his words and actions, but there is an
impression of callow simple-mindedness in his moral sentiments;
at the least, he has not thought through the complexities of the
issues he is called upon to deal with."

--
dorayme

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:54:43 +1100, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
<doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au>
<doraymeRidThis-76F278.08544312012008 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:

| In article <9kkeo393qq8i4smumrl97qedah6lielq04 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
| Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:
|
| > <doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au

[un-attributed snippage noted]

| > >| > [snip a lot of froth and bubble to try and justify IP theft]
| > >|
| > >| You snip it, of course, because you are not big enough to look at
| > >| the distinction being made.
|
| > So you'd have no problem if someone wrote:
| > If you walk into a store and see a product you like just put it into
| > your pocket then walk out of the store (you might be stopped by
| > security personnel).
|
|
| You snipped it again.

No I didn't. Stop being dishonest.

| Who can judge now how little your
| conclusion follows from my words?
|
| You seem quite unable to see things in context. It is almost
| never ok to "just put" something in your pocket and "walk out of
| a store".

What do you mean "almost never ok". Is one form of shoplifting ok
while another form isn't?

| It is very often quite ok to grab a pic from a website
| and stick it on your desktop. I do it on a daily basis with my
| own pictures and my own webpages as a lazy way to avoid going
| through my file system.

With your own IP you are free to do with it as you like. Other
people's IP is a completely different story.

| I know it appears mean to say this but you have insulted me and
| when this happens, I relax all the rules.
|
| You, Jeff North, appear to have an arrested moral development.

Oh I see, I have "an arrested moral development" because I asked
permission to use an image, from a web page. Where as you would just
take it.

[snip irrelevant babblings]
-- -------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau (AT) yourpantsyahoo (DOT) com.au : Remove your pants to reply
-- -------------------------------------------------------------

Jeff North wrote:

|
| http://www.vilain.com/web-design.html

Love it!!!! LOL
Could I have a copy of the image please (properly attributed of
course). I think my students would get a real kick out of it :-)

FYI

http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/archive...f_modern_web_d

http://www.google.com/search?query=t...0design&num=50

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
Can you be a closet claustrophobic?

On 2008-01-12, Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:54:43 +1100, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
doraymeRidThis-76F278.08544312012008...ptusnet.com.au> wrote:
[...]
| You seem quite unable to see things in context. It is almost
| never ok to "just put" something in your pocket and "walk out of
| a store".

What do you mean "almost never ok". Is one form of shoplifting ok
while another form isn't?
[...]
| It is very often quite ok to grab a pic from a website
| and stick it on your desktop. I do it on a daily basis with my
| own pictures and my own webpages as a lazy way to avoid going
| through my file system.

With your own IP you are free to do with it as you like. Other
people's IP is a completely different story.

You're being quite silly here. If people were that concerned about
people stealing their precious IP they wouldn't put their pictures on
the web in the first place any more than shops leave their merchandise
lying around unattended in the street.

Unless a website specifically asks you not to do particular things then
it's perfectly OK to save an image and put it on your desktop. You had
to download the thing to view it in your browser in the first place so
where are you going to draw the line here? It's like a pie shop trying
to charge passers-by for smelling the pies.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:52:08 -0600, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets Ben C <spamspam (AT) spam (DOT) eggs>
<slrnfogvv2.u0u.spamspam (AT) bowser (DOT) marioworld> wrote:

| On 2008-01-12, Jeff North <jnorthau (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote:
| > On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:54:43 +1100, in
| > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets dorayme
| ><doraymeRidThis (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au
| ><doraymeRidThis-76F278.08544312012008 (AT) news-vip (DOT) optusnet.com.au> wrote:
| [...]
| >>| You seem quite unable to see things in context. It is almost
| >>| never ok to "just put" something in your pocket and "walk out of
| >>| a store".
|
| > What do you mean "almost never ok". Is one form of shoplifting ok
| > while another form isn't?
| [...]
| >>| It is very often quite ok to grab a pic from a website
| >>| and stick it on your desktop. I do it on a daily basis with my
| >>| own pictures and my own webpages as a lazy way to avoid going
| >>| through my file system.
|
| > With your own IP you are free to do with it as you like. Other
| > people's IP is a completely different story.
|
| You're being quite silly here. If people were that concerned about
| people stealing their precious IP they wouldn't put their pictures on
| the web in the first place any more than shops leave their merchandise
| lying around unattended in the street.
|
| Unless a website specifically asks you not to do particular things then
| it's perfectly OK to save an image and put it on your desktop. You had
| to download the thing to view it in your browser in the first place so
| where are you going to draw the line here? It's like a pie shop trying
| to charge passers-by for smelling the pies.

Ignorance of the laws is no excuse. Try using the above argument in
front of a judge and see how far it gets you.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau (AT) yourpantsyahoo (DOT) com.au : Remove your pants to reply
-- -------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:49:21 -0500, in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net>
<7LWdnV38AsJM2xXanZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com> wrote:

| Jeff North wrote:
|
| >> |
| >> | http://www.vilain.com/web-design.html
|
| > Love it!!!! LOL
| > Could I have a copy of the image please (properly attributed of
| > course). I think my students would get a real kick out of it :-)
|
| FYI
|
| http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/archive...f_modern_web_d
|
| http://www.google.com/search?query=t...0design&num=50

Thanks. I finally found a site which left the copyright notice intact.
http://blog.labnotes.org/2006/06/27/...rn-web-design/
-- -------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau (AT) yourpantsyahoo (DOT) com.au : Remove your pants to reply
-- -------------------------------------------------------------

In article <slrnfogvv2.u0u.spamspam (AT) bowser (DOT) marioworld>,
Ben C <spamspam (AT) spam (DOT) eggs> wrote:

It's like a pie shop trying
to charge passers-by for smelling the pies.

<g>

--
dorayme