Are HTML frames good?

Water Cooler v2 <wtr_clr (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

In plain HTML, using only HTML and nothing but HTML (or may be some
lite JavaScript), is it possible to include content from another HTML
page into the current page?

See http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/des...l#include-file
--
Darin McGrew, mcgrew (AT) stanfordalumni (DOT) org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, darin (AT) htmlhelp (DOT) com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"I'd love to make time, if only I could find the recipe."

You could pre-process though, as explained in the link I gave:
http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Include_one_file_in_another
That way you do all the including at home, and voila, the result is an
entire website with navigation on every page.

Wow! thanks for that link. I didn't know they built a pre-processor for
HTML. Funky! But there're two disadvantages with it, from what I am
reading:

1. You have to run the pre-processor only once, and that is when you're
fully sure all your content that is to be included is final and won't
change.

2. Not good when you have to edit the content included through the
pre-processor. It would require replacemnet of code in every page that
has the content (pre-processor inserted content) included.

Yup - except for that (IS)API stuff, but I don't think I needed to
understand that ;-)

OK. Sorry.

BTW - are you sure your server doesn't have PHP installed or SSI
enabled?

I am sure that my webserver has PHP 5.0 installed and ASP 3.0 and ASP
..NET v1.1 also intsalled. :-)

However, SSI is not currently enabled.

Water Cooler v2 wrote:

You could pre-process though, as explained in the link I gave:
http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Include_one_file_in_another
That way you do all the including at home, and voila, the result is an
entire website with navigation on every page.

Wow! thanks for that link.

Eh.. I did give it before, but apparently you're not reading alt.html,
meaning you won't read this bit either, nor did you notice your own
message disappeared off your radar?

BTW - are you sure your server doesn't have PHP installed or SSI
enabled?

I am sure that my webserver has PHP 5.0 installed and ASP 3.0 and ASP
.NET v1.1 also intsalled. :-)

However, SSI is not currently enabled.

No need for SSI if you have PHP :-)
(or ASP, but I prefer PHP - more portable to non-Windows environment
;-) )

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:39:15 -0700, Water Cooler v2 wrote:

Thanks, JDS. No. Nothing is wrong with the server side programming
tools. I was only inquiring out of curiosity so as to increase my
knowledge on the subject.

Thanks for the help.

No problem.

What you *really* want, though, is a good templating system.

Something like ColdFusion has a good bit of templating kinda built-in.

Something like PHP does not.

However, PHP has a lot of available templating systems available. From
the fairly simple (bTemplate) to the quite complex (Smarty).

Actually, though, what you might *actually* want is a pre-built content
management system (CMS). No sense in reinventing the wheel and all. Take
a look at http://opensourcecms.com for more information and sample CMSes.

Actually, looking back on your OP, your question is pretty broad.

what, exactly, do you aim to achieve? Being more specific in your goals
and your perceived solutions may help provide more clarity from the
responses.

later...

--
JDS

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:51:38 -0700, Water Cooler v2 wrote:

However, SSI is not currently enabled.

If you have ASP installed (I'm assuming, then, that you are running IIS on
a Windows server) then yes, you do have SSI. ASP in effect implements SSI.
And by "implements" I mean that ASP uses the same syntax, even. (For the
most part).

PHP (and likely dotNet) implement the same *behavior* just not
syntactically in the same way.

later...
--
JDS

Water Cooler v2 wrote

Are HTML frames a good thing or a bad thing?

I've never needed to use them, so I would say they were unnecessary rather
than good or bad. Having said that, they are a f*cking pain if you are
trying to bookmark a page.

--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:11:54 -0700, Water Cooler v2 wrote:

That is rather a glib remark.

Oh, no no no. This is usenet; people are plain spoken.
They won't adjust to you. You adjust to them.
The groups are, for the most part discussion groups, not
help groups.

At the lowest level you cut and paste exactly the same
navigation around new material.

One level up you use a preprocessor to automate this for you
on your own machine then upload the finished .html files.
Take your pick:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/links/preprocessors.html

If you have server side permissions, you can move all this
away from your machine and generate your pages in all kinds
of ways SSI, Perl/Python/Ruby_with_CGI generated pages, PHP, SSI,
all sorts of ways. Google them all.

On 12 Jul 2006 09:51:38 -0700, in alt.html "Water Cooler v2"
<wtr_clr (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Wow! thanks for that link. I didn't know they built a pre-processor for
HTML. Funky! But there're two disadvantages with it, from what I am
reading:

1. You have to run the pre-processor only once, and that is when you're
fully sure all your content that is to be included is final and won't
change.

Not necessarily.

2. Not good when you have to edit the content included through the
pre-processor. It would require replacemnet of code in every page that
has the content (pre-processor inserted content) included.

Look up a program called IncludeHTML. It lets you both preprocess your
HTML, and remove the preprocessed sections.

FAQ at http://rosenlundnielsen.dk/doc?produ...l&document=faq

Download includeHTML from http://rosenlundnielsen.dk/software/

--
Money can't buy happiness, but it can let you rent it for a while...

Water Cooler v2 wrote:

1. You have to run the pre-processor only once, and that is when you're
fully sure all your content that is to be included is final and won't
change.

No. Run. Test. Edit. Run. Test. Edit. Run. Test. Edit. Upload.

2. Not good when you have to edit the content included through the
pre-processor. It would require replacemnet of code in every page that
has the content (pre-processor inserted content) included.

Which doesn't take very long unless you have a very large number of pages,
and tools such as rsync allow you to minimise the amount of data transfer
needed to upload the changes.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

I do not have any special question. I am just trying to learn some
positioning for Web development/design.

OK, I tried the solution with frames. And it worked. Now, I am trying
it with CSS and here's the CSS I use to embed the sidebar. Please have
a look at this:

DIV.sidebar
{
font-family: Georgia;
font-size: 9pt;
background-colorink;
margin-top:0px;
}

DIV.contentPane
{
margin-left:200px;
margin-top: 0;
margin-bottom:0;
margin-right: 50px;
}

Yet, the side bar takes up the entire width of the browser.

If I set the width of the side bar like so:

width:200px;

The side bar squeezes to 200 pixels but the rest of the space to the
right remains empty and the contentPane still starts below the end of
the sidebar, althought at a proper left-alignment of 200 px.

How do I make the sidebar a floating object? I rememeber there is a CSS
tag to do that. Although, from the code of the web page Stephen posted,
no such thing is used. Yet, the side bar on his page stays docked to
the left.