Glutton for punishment ...

In article <37mjac.64r.19.1 (AT) news (DOT) alt.net>, Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net>
wrote:

dorayme wrote:
dorayme wrote:

If it is just some aesthetic idea, perhaps it needs obviating in favour
of intuitive utility.

Well, yes, it really was mostly an aesthetic exercise although partly
one of trying a particular CSS technique. Again, I'm just playing
around here.

Nothing wrong with experimenting! But no fixed anything in your

particular design is the least objectional on sheer looks for many
browsing situations. But I understand there may well be an argument on
utility grounds for having your menu (the drop down one at the top)
fixed. Can't say the same for the footer, here there is about as much
utility as dyeing a male cat's ears pink.

If there is a good advantage in doing something on utility grounds in a
webspage or site, the aesthetics should always 'fit in' to suit the
function. In other words, the aesthetics should not be some
independently judged matter that operates with uncomfortable tension to
the utility, looking nice in this browsing situation, bad in that... The
trick is to design to make it pleasant in all situations.

So, in a page where you want the header and footer fixed, don't design
the whole as if the fixed bits are an afterthought. To avoid this you
might have to play about quite a bit to get it right. You might have to
bite the bullet and be bold and have the header and footer quite
distinct in look and background in order to contrast boldly with the
scrolling content. This removes the tension I speak of. How good it then
looks is up to your skills in implementing it.

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:

In article<37mjac.64r.19.1 (AT) news (DOT) alt.net>, Ed Mullen<ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net
wrote:

dorayme wrote:
dorayme wrote:

If it is just some aesthetic idea, perhaps it needs obviating in favour
of intuitive utility.

Well, yes, it really was mostly an aesthetic exercise although partly
one of trying a particular CSS technique. Again, I'm just playing
around here.

Nothing wrong with experimenting! But no fixed anything in your
particular design is the least objectional on sheer looks for many
browsing situations. But I understand there may well be an argument on
utility grounds for having your menu (the drop down one at the top)
fixed. Can't say the same for the footer, here there is about as much
utility as dyeing a male cat's ears pink.

It was an experiment. And, that's why I posted here asking for
critiques. and the answers I got were very helpful. So, as you can see
if you go to my site, the experiment has been abandoned. Althought the
effect can still be viewed at:

http://edmullen.net/test/fixed_footer_example.php

FWIW.

If there is a good advantage in doing something on utility grounds in a
webspage or site, the aesthetics should always 'fit in' to suit the
function. In other words, the aesthetics should not be some
independently judged matter that operates with uncomfortable tension to
the utility, looking nice in this browsing situation, bad in that... The
trick is to design to make it pleasant in all situations.

Granted. The experiment was fun and interesting. But, ultimately,
non-productive for reasons of usability. More confusion created than
usability produced.

So, in a page where you want the header and footer fixed, don't design
the whole as if the fixed bits are an afterthought. To avoid this you
might have to play about quite a bit to get it right. You might have to
bite the bullet and be bold and have the header and footer quite
distinct in look and background in order to contrast boldly with the
scrolling content. This removes the tension I speak of. How good it then
looks is up to your skills in implementing it.

And I appreciate that notion. Don't necessarily agree but, I get what
you're saying. Ok, I'll re-think that whole thing. Even if I even want
the effect at all.

I do stumble upon sites every day where I go: "Huh?" Or the
javascript, java or other browser-specific design makes me go: "WTFO,
over?" And these are on sites of big companies that ought to know
better. But, apparently, don't.

http://sears.com

just today. Endless cycling in SeaMonkey, opened fine in IE8. That is
just stupid. If I hadn't needed to buy something from them I'd have
blown them off in an instant.

http://edmullen.net/test/fixed_footer_example.php

Oh well. Listen, thanks to you and all others who replied. I
appreciate it all. It's fun stuff. Playing with the technology,
thinking "Ooo, now that's a fun thing!" and getting brought back to
reality. That is, for me, one major purpose of the community.

Nice. Now, can we do the same with the American Congress? I feel as
though I'm surrounded by ... oh, never mind. I realized I can't say
what I want to about this on a "family" forum.

Assholes.

Ooops! Sorry about that!

Hey, at least I reversed my design easily enough. Once these "people"
ram their "stuff" through? I doubt there is any going back.

Hey, maybe that was at the root of my experiment? At least I can
control how my Web site looks. Trying to control those jerks in D.C.?
Not likely. Perhaps I was just grasping at straws?

Great! Now I've probably managed to piss everybody off!

And, yes, I'm off of the Starbucks and onto the Jim Beam. Not quite 12
hours later. :-D

But, tomorrow is another day and I will be off for my
triple-Grande-latte. And sit down and read my three newspapers. And do
(uh, it's Friday ...) three crosswords.

You do know that an "olla" is a stew pot, eh? God! I love crosswords.
I have so many useless words in my head now it's great. A "tarn" is a
mountain lake. A "tar" is also a "salt" and is a "seaman." Not to be
confused with "semen." And we wonder why English is so hard to learn.

Ok, I'm gonna go have another Jim Beam.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Why is it that when you transport something by car, it is called a
shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it is called cargo?

On 22 Oct 2009, Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net> wrote:

A "tarn"
is a
mountain lake.

Nah, a "tarn" is a giant bird from another planet. Never heard of
"Tarnsman Of Gor"?

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.org/
http://www.neredbojias.net/

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Take a look at the site in my sig address. I just changed it to have
both a fixed top header and fixed footer. Tested in all major
browsers I know of and it seems to work just fine.
The hover effect on all your links -- ordinary link changes to a green
button -- also makes the surrounding text jump about. That's
disconcerting.

Okay, I think I got that fixed.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Some people are like a Slinky toy - not really good for anything, but
you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.

Ed Mullen wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
The hover effect on all your links -- ordinary link changes to a
green button -- also makes the surrounding text jump about. That's
disconcerting.

Okay, I think I got that fixed.

Not uploaded yet? I still see the text to the right of a link jumping
about when hovering/unhovering a link.

But it goes away if I remove these from a:hover.highlight

border-color: #799B83 #000 #000 #799B83;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-style: solid;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-width: 2px 2px 2px 2px;/* buttonize links hover*/

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
The hover effect on all your links -- ordinary link changes to a
green button -- also makes the surrounding text jump about. That's
disconcerting.

Okay, I think I got that fixed.

Not uploaded yet? I still see the text to the right of a link jumping
about when hovering/unhovering a link.

But it goes away if I remove these from a:hover.highlight

border-color: #799B83 #000 #000 #799B83;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-style: solid;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-width: 2px 2px 2px 2px;/* buttonize links hover*/

Yeah, it sure would have helped if had uploaded the fix to the server.
It's up now. Sheesh.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -
Bruce Cockburn

Ed Mullen wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Ed Mullen wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
The hover effect on all your links -- ordinary link changes to a
green button -- also makes the surrounding text jump about. That's
disconcerting.

Okay, I think I got that fixed.

Not uploaded yet? I still see the text to the right of a link jumping
about when hovering/unhovering a link.

But it goes away if I remove these from a:hover.highlight

border-color: #799B83 #000 #000 #799B83;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-style: solid;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-width: 2px 2px 2px 2px;/* buttonize links hover*/


Yeah, it sure would have helped if had uploaded the fix to the server.
It's up now. Sheesh.

You may want to include a dark green background color as well to the
hover so the link doesn't "disappear" when the link text turns white and
the image is delayed loading on slow connections.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

In article <37pc7a.e02.19.1 (AT) news (DOT) alt.net>, Ed Mullen <ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net>
wrote:

http://edmullen.net

When all styles are off, your site is also a meaningful page. You are
able to do this for a simple personal page but a leading Australian
bank, absolutely huge in fact, cannot manage as much. They simply have
not the skills to even recognise the problem of their crazy generated
CSS and HTML. And this is generally true of most sites on the internet
as far as I am seeing lately...

--
dorayme

Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Ed Mullen wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
The hover effect on all your links -- ordinary link changes to a
green button -- also makes the surrounding text jump about. That's
disconcerting.

Okay, I think I got that fixed.

Not uploaded yet? I still see the text to the right of a link jumping
about when hovering/unhovering a link.

But it goes away if I remove these from a:hover.highlight

border-color: #799B83 #000 #000 #799B83;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-style: solid;/* buttonize links hover*/
border-width: 2px 2px 2px 2px;/* buttonize links hover*/


Yeah, it sure would have helped if had uploaded the fix to the server.
It's up now. Sheesh.


You may want to include a dark green background color as well to the
hover so the link doesn't "disappear" when the link text turns white and
the image is delayed loading on slow connections.

Yes, a good thought. I do tend to forget that my very fast broadband
connection is not the absolute norm. Thanks.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
"Harmony of aim, not identity of conclusion, is the secret of
sympathetic life." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

dorayme wrote:

In article<37pc7a.e02.19.1 (AT) news (DOT) alt.net>, Ed Mullen<ed (AT) edmullen (DOT) net
wrote:

http://edmullen.net

When all styles are off, your site is also a meaningful page. You are
able to do this for a simple personal page but a leading Australian
bank, absolutely huge in fact, cannot manage as much. They simply have
not the skills to even recognise the problem of their crazy generated
CSS and HTML. And this is generally true of most sites on the internet
as far as I am seeing lately...

and to think that all I'm doing is having fun, keeping my mind alive,
engaging in an online version of my daily crossword puzzles, as it were.

It's a mind's exercise for me. Fun. Tickles my technological fancy.

http://edmullen.net/lasernerds.php

In fact, while some of this may make me seem nearly as old as God, I've
only just turned 59. I retired very very early through rather excellent
money management and having married a woman who made a shitload of
money. Which, I must say, while she was working, I managed to manage
into a very tidy sum.

And now I can play. Screwing around with CSS and HTML is quieter and
less disruptive than sitting and playing the guitar and singing so,
primarily, that's what I do. Although, frankly, I'd rather be writing
songs. But, ah well, can't keep the Lady up at night, eh? I can close
the office door and she won't hear the clicking of the keyboard. Harder
to shield her from my strumming, plucking and singing.

Hmm. She professed about 6 months ago that she wanted me to go buy
another guitar. Hmm. But today I went out and bought a new
refrigerator and microwave. Hmm. I could be wrong but, uh, mayhaps
I've been manipulated? I mean, a nice unique James Goodall acoustic
guitar may have set me back about $4.5 thousand? The new fridge and
mwave only about $3k. Hmm. Oh well, she's happy, the fridge will be
delivered tomorrow. All's well with the world.

LOL. Whatever. It's only life. Live it.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Why doesn't the glue stick to the inside of the bottle?